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mixchange
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01-11-2008, 02:58 AM
Post subject: Calling 3 bets OTB with small pairs in blind wars
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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So this happens a lot -- folded to me OTB and I have 22-88 , I lead for $4 and
4ish diff scenarios unfold
1) foldz. YAY
2) both call
3) one 3 bets, one folds
4) ones 3bets, the other calls
If checked to in #2 I fire flop and turn (unless both players call flop)
in #3 should we really setmine here? Anyone here fold? We probably need super deep stacks to call with small PPs. I feel like it's a fold. We do have position but villain is basically always cbetting.
in #4, I think calling makes more sense... but should it? Do we really have a bigger chance to stack someone? there's really nothing bet set value...
also, im guessing all this is VERY limit dependant... i.e. not much 3betting out of blinds with bad hands in 50nl or below, some in 100nl, a lot more as you go up... so perhaps we should frame the discussion that way?
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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How does opening for 3X change your thinking?
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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I don't like $3 because more people call in the BB. 33% bigger risk, but I think I get at least 33% more folds.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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3) I always fold here, although I would call if we're deep. (I'm at 50nl so there is very little light 3 betting)
4) Maybe more of a call then a fold. Depends on stack sizes I think.
Thats just what I do, I would like to hear others responses.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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such a vast topic:
PFR 5xBB
float or bluff shove flops
Cut down on stealing tho this is weak if you cut back way to much
PFR 3xBB
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mixchange
I don't like $3 because more people call in the BB. 33% bigger risk, but I think I get at least 33% more folds.
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3x makes it easier to call a 3-bet playing for a set with full stacks.
I raise 3x and call in both scenarios, esp. considering opp is signalling he has a big hand and is liklier to stack off if I hit.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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it depends on stakes, since the higher you go the more 3betting there is. i think the higher you go, the more useful a 3x opener is OTB.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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I make 3x from MP3-BU with small pairs. That way if I am 3bet I usually have odds to call. Or sometimes I just 4-bet/fold.
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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So you vary your raise with position? I know people vary their 3bets (sauce) but I didn't know some people like to vary their opener. I haven't seen it much, except some people raise LESS with KK/AA. lol.
I have been consistently doing the same raise regardless of position. What amounts do you raise in respect to positions?
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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I think if you vary your pf raise size a lot of things go into the thought process. Raising an optimum size to make the hand play out is very important. Also raising an amount to misrepresent your hand can be good. If someone is folding their blinds way too much maybe raise 3x instead of 3.5 or 4x. If you feel like you have a decided post flop advantage raise a smaller amount so there is more money behind to play post flop. If opponenent is tricky raise a larger size so its easier to play post flop etc.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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