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Call with T high on river? 25NL LOL.

  
 
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microgrinder
Old 03-19-2008, 06:37 AM     Post subject: Call with T high on river? 25NL LOL. #1 (permalink)  
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Maybe I've gone insane, but I really want to call here. Site doesn't have HUD, villain is definitely passive. I'd guess somewhere around 30-35/10 or something. He's doubtful to be betting for value with anything but a boat, given history.

Also whats the worst hand you call with?

$0.1/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
3 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
BTN ($22.60)
SB ($9.19)
Hero ($34.27)

Pre-flop: ($0.35, 3 players) Hero is BB :Ts:
BTN calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.35, BTN calls $1.1

Flop: ($2.8, 2 players)
Hero bets $2.3, BTN calls $2.3

Turn: ($7.4, 2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($7.4, 2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $4

Hero is considering calling?
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Jack Sawyer
Old 03-19-2008, 07:09 AM #2 (permalink)  
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UG
Old 03-19-2008, 07:16 AM #3 (permalink)  
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given reads quick fold awe-shucks next hand?


 
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dalecooper
Old 03-19-2008, 11:57 AM #4 (permalink)  
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I let that go without a thought. Even if he's bluffing there's too good of a chance that he'll beat you by accident.
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microgrinder
Old 03-19-2008, 06:47 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalecooper
Even if he's bluffing there's too good of a chance that he'll beat you by accident.
I don't think this happens very often, as he is just happy to see a showdown with the hands that beat me that aren't a boat.
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EzDuzIt
Old 03-19-2008, 08:03 PM #6 (permalink)  
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probably let it go. i guess u beat counterfeited pps
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dalecooper
Old 03-19-2008, 08:12 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microgrinder
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalecooper
Even if he's bluffing there's too good of a chance that he'll beat you by accident.
I don't think this happens very often, as he is just happy to see a showdown with the hands that beat me that aren't a boat.
Depending how aware he is he might not realize that king high/queen high is a reasonable holding here and thinks he's bluffing when he's actually making something closer to a very thin (and weird) value bet; or he might just be making a very thin (and weird) value bet. Regardless, I'm not usually bothering with this. There are a lot of better spots for looking people up. This is the kind of call you make to bolster your table image as much as to make money, and does your table image really matter to this guy, or anyone else who's sitting with you? Probably not.

But if you were playing Phil Ivey, I'd say this is worth the call. It might get him off your ass for 3 or 4 hands, and would also be an awesome story to tell your friends.
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Ash256
Old 03-19-2008, 08:38 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 You're not completely insane you know dude.
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kmind
Old 03-19-2008, 08:45 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 I probably fold. If he bets a suspicious amount I probably call.
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martindcx1e
Old 03-19-2008, 08:57 PM #10 (permalink)  
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without reading the hand fold
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
 
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dev
Old 03-19-2008, 09:16 PM #11 (permalink)  
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You don't even beat a bluff most of the time.

I pokerstoved you vs. top 50% of all hands:
Board: Ad 3c As Jh Jc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 18.769% 15.16% 03.61% 67 15.94 { Ts9s }
Hand 1: 81.231% 77.62% 03.61% 343 15.94 { 33+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A2o+, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T7o+, 98o }
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 03-19-2008, 10:16 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 call and it's probably not close.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 03-19-2008, 10:19 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 yeah i agree i call too.
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 03-19-2008, 10:23 PM #14 (permalink)  
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 this guy has a counterfeited pair sooooooooooooooooooooo much.

if i had like 87 i might lead like $2.50 on the river.
Check out my blog http://suited-aces.com
 
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nutsinho
Old 03-19-2008, 10:24 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 why arent you guys adjusting his range to hands he actually calls flop with. this includes pairs and aces, not shit like KT or Q9. he never has jj+ so he nearly always either has an ace or a worse hand than yours. snapcall
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
 
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microgrinder
Old 03-19-2008, 10:35 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Aside from being a good image play with how I play, I truly think this is marginally +eV given that we only have to be right like 25% of the time. I think it's at least close.

Like what would you guys do with KK here? I really think KK is only a marginally better than T-high in this spot. Cause I there's so many reasons against him showing down K or Q high in this hand.

Edit: posted this before all the call posts came in. Good to see I'm not on crack lol.
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Genitruc
Old 03-20-2008, 01:04 AM #17 (permalink)  
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 r u on crack?
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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pocketfours
Old 03-20-2008, 01:17 AM #18 (permalink)  
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 Call
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microgrinder
Old 03-20-2008, 03:26 AM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genitruc
r u on crack?
Crack? No. Drunk...maybe (it was just St. Patrick's day)

Anywho, I tanked and called, villain showed 88. Maybe I was overthinking things and this is an easier call than what I made it out to be.

On re-evaluation I think I lead river for 1/3->1/2 pot if I have like worse than 7 or 8 high and C/C if I have like better than 8 or 9 high versus this opponent.
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kmind
Old 03-20-2008, 03:44 AM #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dev
You don't even beat a bluff most of the time.

I pokerstoved you vs. top 50% of all hands:
Board: Ad 3c As Jh Jc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 18.769% 15.16% 03.61% 67 15.94 { Ts9s }
Hand 1: 81.231% 77.62% 03.61% 343 15.94 { 33+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A2o+, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T7o+, 98o }
this range is completely worthless here
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dev
Old 03-20-2008, 06:00 AM #21 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmind
Quote:
Originally Posted by dev
You don't even beat a bluff most of the time.

I pokerstoved you vs. top 50% of all hands:
Board: Ad 3c As Jh Jc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 18.769% 15.16% 03.61% 67 15.94 { Ts9s }
Hand 1: 81.231% 77.62% 03.61% 343 15.94 { 33+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A2o+, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T7o+, 98o }
this range is completely worthless here
Relax, I was just illustrating a point in the simplest possible way.

I don't know why I didn't think about this earlier, but I've flat called a J-high board when I played the board and watched a guy muck his hand without seeing mine. But that time I had a ridiculously good physical read. Online this is just insane.
Check out my self-deprecation here!
 
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nutsinho
Old 03-20-2008, 09:07 AM #22 (permalink)  
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 this guy prob would have valuetowned me if i had 7 high. lol
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
 
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microgrinder
Old 03-20-2008, 09:26 AM #23 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho
this guy prob would have valuetowned me if i had 7 high. lol
That would be absolutely hilarious. I think its probably more optimal to lead river for a small bet with 7 high or worse.

In hindsight I don't think this is all that close with at least 9 high+ anymore. C/C seems >> anything else the more I think about it.
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microgrinder
Old 03-20-2008, 09:27 AM #24 (permalink)  
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double post.
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Deanglow
Old 03-20-2008, 02:55 PM #25 (permalink)  
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 For all of you that say you would snapcall, please post a hand similar where you actually did.
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 03-20-2008, 03:19 PM #26 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanglow
For all of you that say you would snapcall, please post a hand similar where you actually did.
This is a horrible call but hey i did it.

PokerStars Game #14779283469: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/01/23 - 22:56:18 (ET)
Table 'Lyalya' 2-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: heybude ($423.50 in chips)
Seat 2: snowbank ($1061.50 in chips)
heybude: posts small blind $2
snowbank: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [4c 7s]
heybude: raises $8 to $12
snowbank: calls $8
*** FLOP *** [3h 2c Ks]
snowbank: bets $15
heybude: raises $37 to $52
heybude said, "call"
heybude said, "shove"
snowbank: raises $997.50 to $1049.50 and is all-in
heybude said, "haha"
heybude: calls $359.50 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [3h 2c Ks] [5s]
*** RIVER *** [3h 2c Ks 5s] [5c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
snowbank: shows [5d 4d] (three of a kind, Fives)
heybude: mucks hand
snowbank collected $846.50 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $847 | Rake $0.50
Board [3h 2c Ks 5s 5c]
Seat 1: heybude (button) (small blind) mucked [4c 7s]
Seat 2: snowbank (big blind) showed [5d 4d] and won ($846.50) with three of a kind, Fives
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nutsinho
Old 03-20-2008, 03:29 PM #27 (permalink)  
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 looool so frustrating
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
 
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 03-20-2008, 05:23 PM #28 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanglow
For all of you that say you would snapcall, please post a hand similar where you actually did.
This hand doesn't come up often... it'd take me forever to find one. If it comes up sometime soon I'll make sure to post it.

I've probably never done it with T high either (i think in the moment in micro's situation i'd lead bluff the river). Definitely have done it in a similar situation with Q or K high though.
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griffey24
Old 03-20-2008, 05:31 PM #29 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massimo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanglow
For all of you that say you would snapcall, please post a hand similar where you actually did.
This hand doesn't come up often... it'd take me forever to find one. If it comes up sometime soon I'll make sure to post it.

I've probably never done it with T high either (i think in the moment in micro's situation i'd lead bluff the river). Definitely have done it in a similar situation with Q or K high though.
I agree that I'd end up lead bluffing waay waay more often than checking wtih the intention of calling with T-high. I'm not saying lead bluffing is better, but I feel more comfortable b/f than c/c with this kind of hand.
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 03-20-2008, 06:16 PM #30 (permalink)  
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 yeah even though c/c is way better
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Genitruc
Old 03-20-2008, 06:36 PM #31 (permalink)  
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 ISF that hand just made my day

ty
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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pocketfours
Old 03-20-2008, 08:30 PM #32 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
This is a horrible call but hey i did it.
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