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C/F or B/F, couple of river spot line checks.

  
 
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Carroters
Old 09-17-2010, 12:59 PM     Post subject: C/F or B/F, couple of river spot line checks. #1 (permalink)  
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 Both of these are vs the same guy. He's 20/14 over 220 hands and seems fairly straightforward and not very aggro. Not sure how good he is at folding on the river but both of these seemed like fairly easy bets at the time, thoughts?

Oh, and I'm opening to 3.4x preflop, not 2.9 fwiw.

Hand 1

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($114.50)
Hero (SB) ($100)
BB ($100)
UTG ($159.70)
MP ($98.15)
CO ($195.70)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 10, 10
4 folds, Hero bets $2.90, BB calls $2.40

Flop: ($6.80) 6, 9, 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $4.50, BB calls $4.50

Turn: ($15.80) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $12.50, BB calls $12.50

River: ($40.80) J (2 players)
Hero bets $23

Hand 2

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($103)
Button ($100)
Hero (SB) ($110.35)
BB ($203.05)
UTG ($119.50)
MP ($105)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, J
4 folds, Hero bets $2.90, BB calls $2.40

Flop: ($6.80) J, 3, 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $4.25, BB calls $4.25

Turn: ($15.30) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $11, BB calls $11

River: ($37.30) K (2 players)
Hero bets $21

 
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Da GOAT
Old 09-17-2010, 01:29 PM #2 (permalink)  
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1 - i c/f expecting opp to check back most hands.

2 - Im thinkin I c/c here since a ton a draws missed.
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BigPapi
Old 09-17-2010, 01:56 PM #3 (permalink)  
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1) agree on c/f he's not turning a medium value hand into a bluff here an will check those down. Dont see much value in betting or getting better hands to fold

2) here im thinking b/f since draws missed he will still call down with worse hands, while he wont necessarily bets his missed draws when checked to.
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Mr. Diamond
Old 09-17-2010, 02:14 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 I would probably c/f both
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Carroters
Old 09-17-2010, 02:41 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 1. I think there's probably stillsome value from 9x and even lower pairs some % of the time b vs b here, but the flush card isn't the best i can maybe get behind a c/f here, although I would exepct him to raise a fd on the flop a decent % of the time. Think we have the best hand a lot and it comes down to how much we can get 9x and maybe even worse hands to bluff catch.

2. Meh spades and T8 missed, QT got there, again I expect him to raise spades at some point and prolly not jus peel 2 here with T8, due to this I'm not sure I love c/c when he can have K9 KJ maybe QT sometimes. If I'd seen him play draws passivley I'd like it more. Value betting here is maybe too thin. Especially since he called in hand 1 and saw me value bet lightly.

 
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Old 09-17-2010, 06:16 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 1)bet like 15$
2)he's not paying off with 9x that often, so we beat JT, lose to KJ AJ. If this hand is after hand 1 and he lost hand 1, id prob just c/c a small bet and fold to a big one.
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Carroters
Old 09-17-2010, 07:02 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 He called and won in hand 1 with J9 fwiw.

 
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Micro2Macro
Old 09-17-2010, 10:13 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 1 is a clear value bet, your river sizing seems fine (could maybe even go bigger)

2 seems more like a c/re-eval
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Da GOAT
Old 09-17-2010, 10:46 PM #9 (permalink)  
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ill side with a small vb on river in hand 1
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Micro2Macro
Old 09-17-2010, 11:22 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 is betting $15 as opposed to $23 even going to change his calling range??
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lancelott_
Old 09-18-2010, 10:49 AM #11 (permalink)  
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 1) I think if we check the river, smart opponent should turn every single weaker 9x or worse into a bluff, because we are ch-folding so often
There is value in betting this river, maybe on a bigger side repping a flush and trying to get called by any bluffcatcher
what is this guys 3B %?
2) seems close - i think AJ+ is a clear Vbet, QJ might be a good vbet here as well, depending on how often he is gonna not believe you and call here with worse. TUrn i might C/C sometimes, since i`ll be giving up here quit a bit i think.
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griffey24
Old 09-18-2010, 11:41 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancelott_ View Post
1) I think if we check the river, smart opponent should turn every single weaker 9x or worse into a bluff, because we are ch-folding so often
I don't think we need to be turning hands into bluffs that often in this spot. A lot of people in hero's spot will check with their air because they feel like that card might have hit us too much, so they don't wanna continue bluffing.

Others will check a lot of strong hands as a method of pot controlling, since they don't wanna get raised on their river bets. This is mostly people that would rather c/c since they are incapable of b/f strength here.
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sauce123
Old 09-25-2010, 07:55 PM #13 (permalink)  
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b/decide first one
c/c 2nd one
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grindinginnj
Old 09-28-2010, 09:55 PM #14 (permalink)  
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i c/c both hands, isnt your hand a bluff catcher know?
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Carroters
Old 10-08-2010, 02:10 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 Villain has no air in his range at all in hand 1 and so has a very low bluff frequency.

 
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