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Ragnar4
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06-08-2008, 11:28 PM
Post subject: Busted Flush draw
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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I have several questions reguarding the play of a flush draw on the flop, turn, and the river against an aggressive opponent who regularly uses PSB's as his main weapon.
So lets say that in a game, there's a raise3-4x bet raise, and you're the only caller with KsQs.
In this situation the As 2s 7h hits. This tells us quite a few things. A runner runner straight is possible, and on the flop worth one out, plus your flush draw, drawing to a king or queen is stupid since the ace covers them as outs. Right now you have 10 outs. Your opponent makes a pot sized bet. Lets say that there is 8.5 bets in the pot so he bets 8.5 bets and we both have a full buy in. Obviously you have to call the flop.
Is there ever a case for raising here? Does the free card play raise work in NL?? I know if I had an over I'm supposed to get it all in, but with 2 unders and a flush draw as my only hope.. what do I do?
Flop comes and misses you again (remember we're busting ldo). Your opponet bets again, makes a PSB. This is where things get dicey. He's now betting 24bets, only has 68 bets left, I'm only winning 20% of the time here. I barely have odds and that's only if I stack him. I have 3 options, and all 3 seem viable depending on reads, but how often are you gonna call to the river, complete an obvious flush and end up with all of your opponents chips anyway? Raising may be viable as a semi-bluff. But I have a really hard time sticking a good anount of money in right here when it seems my opponent has about 3% fold equity. It may buy me a free river, but I'm only gonna have like 25bets anyway.
So I call, and what do you know, the river blanks again. The only way I win is if my opponent folds, and the board isn't very dangerous. How often should I be shoving a busted flush draw? Should I even be in this situation?
I love flushes, but they never seem to get paid off. Is there a better way to think about this situation?
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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I just read Sauce123's guide to NL.
It says, With your strongest hands, and draws, shove turn... Is this one of my strongest hands and draws?
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Seriously... is this post so terribad that I should delete pokerstars and walk away? why no answers? even a "no" would help a little.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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I am not sure what stakes you play and I think this question really needs to take that into account. If your opponent is opening a wide range then A72r is a perfect flop to raise because he is hardly ever hitting that flop. He should fold every hand but top pair, and a set to a raise on this flop. I would always raise here and never call (edited I said the opposite, dont call raise!).
You DO NOT have odds to call because you can only count on seeing one street. When you raise you get fold equity, plus a lot of the times when he calls he will check to you on the turn allowing you to see the river.
If you are out of position and check/raise you have to make a judgment call on whether you are going to barrel the turn with your draw on a blank or check/fold. Check/calling should never be an option.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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I'm still building my roll. I'm playing 10nl and 5.5 sngs. This applies to 10nl.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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At 10nl some people won't fold ever. Against those people I am not sure raising is a good idea. If they are firing out tons of cbets and folding to pressure than go ahead. If they are calling raises with mid-pair, you don't have enough fold equity to raise the hand. Against those really stationy types of players I would weight broadway hands better than suited connectors and would be willing to go with top pair mediumkicker type of hands(top pair J kicker, etc). Suited connectors are essentially bluffs with a small chance of hitting the stone cold nuts, use them as such (against people that fold).
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz
You DO NOT have odds to call because you can only count on seeing one street. When you raise you get fold equity, plus a lot of the times when he calls he will check to you on the turn allowing you to see the river.
If you are out of position and check/raise you have to make a judgment call on whether you are going to barrel the turn with your draw on a blank or check/fold. Check/calling should never be an option.
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bingo.
stop worrying about how many douts u have. make flush draw = raise. make straight draw = raise. make tpgk = raise. make set = raise.
my dad hardly understands anything about poker, i tell him to play strong aces in position and pairs anywhere and to follow these rules and he beats 10nl pretty easily.
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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seriously i know the advice sounds silly, but the implied point im attempting to make here is.... KEEP IT SIMPLE!
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