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Mike
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04-17-2007, 07:56 AM
Post subject: BR size for what blind level?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 72
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How big do you recommend the BR to be before playing at the different blind levels.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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You should have 2000 Big Blinds for each level.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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meh- In my mind its a combination of your skill level, the texture of the game you play in, and the risk you are willing to take.
Examples- at 100nl I think I would be comfortable with a BR of 800 or so as the game is very passive and I expect to run at least 10 pt bb/100
At 200nl I think I would run about the same winrate, but I think 3000 would be more accurate as games play significantly more aggressive and bigger swings will happen.
Basically if you are a 4 pt bb/100 winner at 100nl I think a 2k bankroll is pretty much optimal, basically the same for lower limits.
Once you get to msnl (400-1000) I think 50 buy ins is about the minimum at 20 bi swings are relatively common, even for big winners.
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
You should have 2000 Big Blinds for each level.
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At least 2000. I like to have more. I prefer 4000 but maybe I'm a bit of a wuss like that.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
at 100nl I think I would be comfortable with a BR of 800 or so as the game is very passive and I expect to run at least 10 pt bb/100
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My god you're full of yourself! I don't have a million dollar roll to challenge you to play HU but I would really appreciate a thread in which you chart your efforts to run at 10ptbb/100+ at $100nl over, say, 50k hands.
But, more importantly, you're being asked a question by someone who obviously isn't an advanced player and effectively advising them to commit virtual suicide by playing hugely underrolled.
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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I'd like to see you try that Sauce. I don't mean that in a "you're so full of shit" kind of way, I'm genuinely intersted. I play on a soft site and I am so rarely getting it in with the best hand. But I'm still only running at 4.21bbs right now after ~50k hands.
Not that I'm anywhere near your skill level but I don't see being able to outplay passive call stations affecting your winrate that much since you're basically resorting to knowing to fold when you're beat and winning the most when you're ahead. There's not a lot of room to win money elsewhere.
In any case, OP, disregard Sauces advice, he's a lot better than you, or me, or most of us...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Sauce, your being relatively exaggetory. No one who is actually at 100nl can run that good, only a 600nl reg could run that good, or a very good mid staker. Anyone actually at that level isnt going to run close to that.
Also, no, don't listen to him. BR management is extremely important for new players (all players) and you should have at least 20 buy ins.
The only exception i ever see to BR management is when a very good player joins a new poker site with a low BR and is willing to go busto a few times because of his back up money.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Before gabe chimes in if he does i might as well say what he'll say.
Move up when you have 20 buy ins, if u get below that move down.
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phantom_lord
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 349
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20-30 buyins. closer to 30 is better.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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If you guys re-read Sauce's post it makes a lot of sense. He said that its a combo of skill, txture, risk, and that HE can do it with 8 buyins at 100nl, 10 buyins at 200nl, etc...b/c of the previous factors.
Overall these are the factors a skilled player should consider if he should move up/down, etc...If you have no idea about your skill level, txt, risk you're willing to take, then the standard BR strategy is to have at least 20 buyins for each level.
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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no matter who you are, it's an inevitable probability to drop 8 buyins. 8 buyins is not enough.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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i like 20 buy-ins for FR, and 30ish for 6max. if you get inside those buy-in numbers never feel ashamed to drop a level and rebuild.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
no matter who you are, it's an inevitable probability to drop 8 buyins. 8 buyins is not enough.
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Agreed. If it's your only online bankroll and you wont be able to put any more money, 8 buyins is def not enough...
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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You guys are little off about winrates. For a player who has grinded up to the level of 100nl, it's almost impossible to think he could run more than 6ptBB/100 in the long run if that. But for one of the best 600nl regs and a guy taking a shot at 1k nl I thinks its more than plausible that Sauce could run 10+ptBB/100 in the long run.
But even then, you can expect to have a 10 buy in swing at one point in 100k hands so you at least need 12 buy ins id think. But still this is all theoretical stuff that will never apply to anyone. 20buyins+ is a good rule.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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right but if u have 8 bi and ur winning 7-10 pt bb/100 in generally very passive games, if you run normal to good for like 3k hands ur risk or ruin is going to be incredibly low. So lets say you start with 8 bi and maybe u have a 20% chance of going on a 8 bi downer before u get enough wins behind u to reach a comfortable 20 or 30 bi bankroll. And thats if you refuse to move down, if you drop below say 500 to 50nl. I think with a very high winrate, BR management should be significantly more aggressive....
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
at 100nl I think I would be comfortable with a BR of 800 or so as the game is very passive and I expect to run at least 10 pt bb/100
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My god you're full of yourself! I don't have a million dollar roll to challenge you to play HU but I would really appreciate a thread in which you chart your efforts to run at 10ptbb/100+ at $100nl over, say, 50k hands.
But, more importantly, you're being asked a question by someone who obviously isn't an advanced player and effectively advising them to commit virtual suicide by playing hugely underrolled. |
Im not advocating most ppl play 100nl with 8 bi, but im not exaggerating either....
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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But situations like you went through are so rare. Rarely does a player of your caliber forced to start at 100nl because of the state of online poker forcing you to get it transfered. It just is retarded to even talk about this. lol.
No one is ever going to run that good when they are actually grinding that level.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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uhhhhh wow.
Nice stats.
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vegascoop
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 224
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At the risk of sounding needy, could you post your position stats for these limits? Detail would be good too but don't want to push it.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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position stats r.....
28.60/25.25 button +4700
19.49/18.1 CO +4947
16.12/15.66 +1570
14.96/14.96 utg +1125
21.01/11.34 BB -2871
29.27/11.48 SB (Im actually +44.85 in the sb which is kinda unreal)
Also, if I was to play these stakes again today I would definitely play lag unless I was 8+ tabling but whatever...
Looking back the most shocking thing about these stats is that my PFR % in the button and cutoff is so high. Essentially I was almost never limping along in position and 3betting a TON, which I remember being incredibly effective as:
a) ppl would call with marginal holdings and check/fold WAY too many flops
b) people didnt adjust and consistently let me represent AA, KK and I was able to double/triple barrel a ton of scare cards/boards in position in 3bet pots
c) not to mention dead money
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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vegascoop
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 224
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Thanks Sauce.
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Harry
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 722
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I like to attempt to move up when I have about 30 buy-ins, and am comfortable with my game (running well basically.)
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PSU Class of 2011 weeeeeeee!
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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I started 50NL with 12 buy-ins. 10K hands later I have 24 (6bb/100). Caveat, I made most of that pre-netteller crash. Caveat 2, I have a day job so my BR is theoretically > $600 if I could deposit.
I don't think it's the stats that let you run 10BB/100 dudes. 3betting PF probably has something to do with it, but playing well post flop probably helps. So does running good.
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phantom_lord
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 349
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party only let me deposit 500 the first go, so i'm just gonna build a roll with that at .5/1, going well so far, 13bb/100 ftw!
br management? pfffft.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by phantom_lord
party only let me deposit 500 the first go, so i'm just gonna build a roll with that at .5/1, going well so far, 13bb/100 ftw!
br management? pfffft.
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i just dropped 4.5 buyins last night playing $100nl to some sick coolers/beats/bad play. Talk to me in a week when you bust.
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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phantom_lord
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 349
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lol, Ive like 30 buyins spread on other sites that I can move over, so I should be ok!
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zenbitz
I don't think it's the stats that let you run 10BB/100 dudes. 3betting PF probably has something to do with it, but playing well post flop probably helps. So does running good.
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Considering sauce can absolutely dominate the best 100nl reg like he's some sort of huge fish probably has something to do with it also.
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