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shakesss
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02-08-2010, 03:26 PM
Post subject: bottom two bvb coordinated board
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 205
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Villain is a 24/16/3.8 reg. His raise form sb is 13%. his flop cbet is 80 and turn cbet is 40. Showdown stats 30/45 after 753 hands. He plays pretty straight forward against me and we have not really tangled much. This hand came up like 90 hands into this table and out of those he had probably raised the sb less than 20 percent of the time. I chose to take a passive line in position against him because he really doesn't dbl barrel without a hand and i felt that i could probably extract two or three streets value if he has a pair with a straight draw and the board comes off well. Is this the best line to take in this situation? Should i have raised turn?
Button ($18.87)
SB ($48.15)
Hero (BB) ($67.28)
UTG ($28.35)
MP ($137.10)
Preflop: Hero is BB with Jh, Tc
3 folds, SB bets $1.25, Hero calls $1
Flop: ($3) Kc, Ts, Jd (2 players)
SB bets $2, Hero calls $2
Turn: ($7) 6c (2 players)
SB bets $4, Hero calls $4
River: ($15) Qh (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks
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Ravageur
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Official Montreal SwampRat
Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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This seems fine. Raising the flop seems to be the key discussion point. You can raise for value vs AA/AK/KQ/Kx but either than that we don't have much more than a bluff catcher. I think I prefer just calling down and hope the deck doesn't fk us simply because our hand will be underrepped and we can get c/called on the river by Kx which will fold to a raise on the flop/turn quite a bit and also lets us keep the pot small with a very vulnerable hand.
As played with this river, I think we can only check here unless we want to try to bluff him off better two pair.
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Family Cruise IMO
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shakesss
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 205
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I thought about raising flop but then i thought he might reraise the AA, AK, KQ which would be terrible because the other hands in his range would play the same and i would have to fold. I thought raising the turn small (2.5x) might be better because he would be priced into calling, and he would be shoving all his other hands that would bet the river, which i would probably call if the river bricked. Does a turn raise make sense?
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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Raising turn would be pretty brutal because you're overrepping your hand and without very sick reads it puts you in a tough spot if he shoves. Call down is fine, as played I'd probably bet the river to get him off better 2 pair. Aggro ppl do not go for river c/c here with Ax, and probably not with 9x either, so it will work often enough
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shakesss
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 205
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Thanks for clearing up my thought process for this hand guys. I did think about betting river but stopped myself because his wtsd was quite high. Would def take a shot at it if it was around 24 or lower. Good point about an aggro opp not c/c with a str8 in this spot too often Alexos.
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tstrout
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 68
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With that dangerous of a board, raising the flop big seems appropriate to me and then shutting your opponent out on the turn when the blank hits with another large bet. Based on the action, your opponent is only beating you with 2 hands KK and AQ. He would most likely expose his strength to a large preflop raise. Get reraised and you fold bottom two, only get called, jam the blank turn card. This board is way too wet to screw around when playing bottom 2 pair. It needs to be played strongly on every street, unless the scare card hits, then you shut down.
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acoss3006
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by tstrout
With that dangerous of a board, raising the flop big seems appropriate to me and then shutting your opponent out on the turn when the blank hits with another large bet. Based on the action, your opponent is only beating you with 2 hands KK and AQ. He would most likely expose his strength to a large preflop raise. Get reraised and you fold bottom two, only get called, jam the blank turn card. This board is way too wet to screw around when playing bottom 2 pair. It needs to be played strongly on every street, unless the scare card hits, then you shut down.
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I used to think like this. But with that dangerous of a board, what worse hands is villian going to call a large flop raise with? By simply calling, we get value from all those hands in villians range that he will continue to bet and that we currently beat.
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grindinginnj
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Grinding In New Jersey!!
Posts: 143
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I think is was played fine. I dont want to raise the flop like acoss said only hands that beat us are going to call. maybe AA,QQ call and they have decent equity.
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Stackin chips and rippin lips!!
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tstrout
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 68
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I think AK calls a ton of flop raises or even shoves at this limit; not just monsters going to call the flop raise. Point is any A,K, or Q and you're definitely going to find yourself folding the turn or river even if you are still ahead, you're confidence is shot at that point. Besides, your opponent has to play straightforwardly after you raise enough to "appear" pot-committed. Even a min-riase is enough on the flop. No hand other than AQ can slowplay here, so you will get reraised on the flop and can "confidently" fold knowing you're beat. If he leads the blank turn weak or checks the blank turn, make a good healthy bet on the turn. The raise will even slow down KK because he has to fear your raise means AQ. If nothing else you can get a check-check turn river with a flop raise unless your opponent holds AQ. No matter what anyone tells you, you will minimize your losses and maximize your wins by making a flop raise. No one leads the turn who can't beat two-pair on that board after a flop raise from his opponent. I don't believe in betting for information as a rule, because it can be a money pit, but on that board you needed the info.
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tstrout
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 68
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BTW, are you really going to call-call the turn and river and pray that you're ahead at showdown supposing that two blanks hit? Thta maximizes your losses and minimizes your win.
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shakesss
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 205
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The villain in this case as i had mentioned plays pretty straight forward and wasn't raising my blinds often. He also doesn't really dbl barrel without a hand. On this flop i have a hand that is only beating a one pair hand. By raising i make him fold out or stop betting that part of his range and keep him in and reopen the betting with a hand that either has a lot of equity or has me beat. Raising at any point would make me lose value against hands i beat and might put me in tough spots if were to get 3bet.
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baudib
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,233
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I think this was played right. I'd play bottom two much more aggressively if the board is like 965, but not on this board..the river might be a bet because we can't beat anything and he'd have to think about laying down even a set.
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