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Borderline Spot OOP vs Fish

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Genitruc

10-13-2008, 07:14 AM Post subject: Borderline Spot OOP vs Fish

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Posts: 4,463

Genitruc is an unknown quantity at this point

Don't have numbers on villain but he's a big ole whale, limp-calling Ace-rag like it's his job OOP. Post-flop he hasn't shown aggression at all.

Problem is, I've seriously taken down the past 5 or 6 consecutive pots vs him, flopping big hands and barreling scare cards when I don't. My spidey sense tells me he's about to get fed up.

This is the 1st spot in a good while that had me pretty confused at teh lowstakes. Both turn and riv had me feeling confundido...

Table "Stirling" Seat 5 is the button.
Seat 5: Dubm06031 (£461.96 in chips)
Seat 6: Learna (£103.58 in chips)
Seat 7: HERO (£257.80 in chips)
Seat 8: Ultgamb (£77 in chips)
Seat 9: Toms789 (£157.94 in chips)
Seat 10: THE2JETSR (£348.35 in chips)
Learna: posts small blind £1
HERO: posts big blind £2
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to HERO

Ultgamb: folds
Toms789: folds
Toms789 sits out
THE2JETSR: folds
Dubm06031: calls £2
Learna: calls £1
HERO: raises to £11
Dubm06031: calls £9
Learna: folds
----- FLOP -----

HERO: bets £21
Dubm06031: calls £21
----- TURN -----

Toms789 sits back
HERO: bets £41
Dubm06031: raises to £82
HERO: calls £41
----- RIVER -----

HERO

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

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bigspenda73

10-13-2008, 07:44 AM

#2 (permalink)

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I fold the turn

as played, I dunnoz

mixchange

10-13-2008, 10:31 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Location: San Francisco, CA

Posts: 1,665

check call for value I think he mostly has a worse two pair or a busted draw more than a set.. i guess occasionally he shows up with KQd

zook

10-13-2008, 03:41 PM

#4 (permalink)

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I think this is fine given spidey sense and I c/c river.

Galapogos

10-13-2008, 04:58 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Can someone tell me why I'm dumb for wanting to crai this river?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.

zook

10-13-2008, 05:04 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

Can someone tell me why I'm dumb for wanting to crai this river?

I don't think it's bad, just thin.

Galapogos

10-13-2008, 05:08 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by zook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

Can someone tell me why I'm dumb for wanting to crai this river?

I don't think it's bad, just thin.

I was thinking if we're afraid he only does this with sets/KQ then we shouldn't even be here. Since we're not given that we called the turn, this river is gin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.

zook

10-13-2008, 05:12 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

Quote:

Originally Posted by zook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

Can someone tell me why I'm dumb for wanting to crai this river?

I don't think it's bad, just thin.

I was thinking if we're afraid he only does this with sets/KQ then we shouldn't even be here. Since we're not given that we called the turn, this river is gin.

Sure but we're also here b/c our spidey sense tells us the turn mr could be a bluff and we're hoping he bluffs the river again, in which case there's no value in crai.

Galapogos

10-13-2008, 05:21 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by zook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

Quote:

Originally Posted by zook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

Can someone tell me why I'm dumb for wanting to crai this river?

I don't think it's bad, just thin.

I was thinking if we're afraid he only does this with sets/KQ then we shouldn't even be here. Since we're not given that we called the turn, this river is gin.

Sure but we're also here b/c our spidey sense tells us the turn mr could be a bluff and we're hoping he bluffs the river again, in which case there's no value in crai.

If he has the nuts he's likely going to shove anyway, there's only about a PSB left. So why pay off his nut hands full price when he could be turning a hand he won't be folding into a bluff and letting him get off for a lesser price? That and there's so many dumb 2 pairs that we beat that call. Or even an ace that he made a move with and "sucked out" with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.

zook

10-13-2008, 05:25 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Was too lazy to calculate pot size, but there's only 2/3 pot left behind on the river so while he's prob shoving anything he bets, crai if he doesn't is fine I think.

Fnord

10-13-2008, 07:18 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

I might back off pre-flop given that he thinks we're FoS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Genitruc

10-13-2008, 07:37 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I might back off pre-flop given that he thinks we're FoS.

hmm maybe I need to think more about this but my first reaction is noooooooooooooooooooo

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

Fnord

10-13-2008, 08:20 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I might back off pre-flop given that he thinks we're FoS.

hmm maybe I need to think more about this but my first reaction is noooooooooooooooooooo

We have exactly the sort of hand he expects us to have in a spot like this and the pre-flop raise + flop auto-bet is a fair chunk of change to invest in a strategy that may have worn out its welcome. I like to mix-up limped and raised pots with guys like this and adjust both ranges to suit what I think he thinks I have and how much fit-or-fold he's playing.

Then again some guys will just play fit-or-fold all day (until they get short on chips, then they will pick a spot and go with a small/medium pocket pair, middle/bottom pair, any draw, two overs sort of range) unless you're really obvious about blowing them off hands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

nutsinho

10-13-2008, 08:59 PM

#14 (permalink)

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i would fold turn but now shove. hes gonna pussy out on value betting the river a lot with T9/JT since he is passive enough to limp the button but call if we shove particularly if he's starting to think we are full of it

My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.

Genitruc

10-15-2008, 09:30 AM

#15 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 4,463

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutsinho

this post kind of reassured me since it seems like nuts is good at pokerz

I was about to click the fold button then changed my mind on the turn w like 2 secs left because of all the pots I'd been taking from him

what nuts said about him getting passive with a hand like 9T made me think think think then shove river.

He tanked and folded. I rly rly rly wonder wtf he was raising on turn that folds riv? Fishy stationy loosy-goosy players don't usually fold 2 pr...

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

dsaxton

10-16-2008, 12:43 AM

#16 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

Quote:

Originally Posted by zook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

Can someone tell me why I'm dumb for wanting to crai this river?

I don't think it's bad, just thin.

I was thinking if we're afraid he only does this with sets/KQ then we shouldn't even be here. Since we're not given that we called the turn, this river is gin.

Part of the reason you call the turn is because he might be semi-bluffing. He isn't calling an all-in check-raise on the river with the missed draws he decides to bluff with, so it might not be a great play.

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