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Bluffing the same player twice after turn checks

  
 
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minSim
Old 05-15-2010, 10:02 AM     Post subject: Bluffing the same player twice after turn checks #1 (permalink)  
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I haven't seen much of villain, he's 23/17 over 54 hands. I have no info directly related to the hands, but he folds his blinds a lot to steals if it matters and 3bets a decent amount. He seemed to know how to play a TAG style, so that's what I was working with.

I didn't really took into account the first hand into the second at the table. Hands were at different tables as well.

hand 1
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($50)
MP ($50)
Button ($101.75)
Hero (SB) ($67.20)
BB ($61.65)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6, A
2 folds, Button bets $1.50, Hero raises to $5.25, BB calls $4.75, 1 fold

His call surprised me. I think his range is KQ+, TT-QQ, and discounted KK+,77+,JTs+.

Flop: ($12) K, 4, 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $8, BB calls $8

I'm basically cbetting because it's an K high board so it's perceived to be good for my range, so villain should at least fold all his hands <Tx.

Turn: ($28) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks

If he bets I'm folding. Stack sizes are such that I could be trying to c/shove here.
If he checks I put him on Tx, JJ-QQ a ton, so I'm planning to bet river then.

River: ($28) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $20

So I do. I was considering shoving, but I assumed my line is strong anyway so I expected to get credit but a smaller bet as well.


hand 2
My thinking on the turn was that I would get more credit by checking behind the turn and betting the river on a dry board like this. That's probably what I would do with a lot of my 1 pair hands. You like that?
(things didn't turn out that way, but w.e.)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($50)
Button ($72.40)
SB ($106.45)
Hero (BB) ($51.85)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, Q
2 folds, SB bets $1.50, Hero calls $1

Flop: ($3) 8, 4, K (2 players)
SB bets $2, Hero calls $2

Turn: ($7) 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($7) 6 (2 players)
SB bets $5, Hero folds
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shakesss
Old 05-15-2010, 11:41 PM #2 (permalink)  
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His fold to 3b otb would be a helpful stat here. I think he would expect u to bet most of your value range on the turn given the board texture. So even if u put him on the range u did it will be hard for him to put u on something that beats that that is betting the river for value. River sizing looks pretty callable too given his range.


I dont get the flop call with no equity/sd if you arent going to be taking it away on later streets. With some backdoor equity like you have I would rather raise flop and bet turn on 10+ or a spade or a middling connected card.
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Micro2Macro
Old 05-16-2010, 05:25 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 in h1 the range you give him is really crushing you on this flop I'd lead towards c/f then you use that to your advantage later on (in that your cbets will get more credit (theoretically)).
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pocketfours
Old 05-16-2010, 05:35 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 1. This looks pretty bad.

2. This looks fine.
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griffey24
Old 05-16-2010, 02:12 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 hand 1:You have to really think about your ranges here, and what hands on this particular board make sense to bet/check/bet. I'd argue that you don't have many hands that will play that way. Most would either triple barrel, or bet one and shut down.

This board isn't too great to cbet though, if he has such a strong calling range pre. You're going to get called by AQ/AJ/KQ/KJ/QJ/JT/9T etc.

Also your logic on "if he checks the turn, he has Tx-QQ, so you're betting the river" doesn't make that much sense. Because if YOU check the turn, what do YOU have?

Hand 2: meh I don't like this hand in particular to float with. But I don't mind your plan in general to call, check turn and bet river when he checks. Just pick a hand with better equity.
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pocketfours
Old 05-16-2010, 04:20 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 Griffey we have two conditional overs, which are likely good if villain checks turn. We also have two bd straight draws and a bd flush draw. We could have the best hand. No reason to hate life imo.
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nutsinho
Old 05-16-2010, 05:55 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 you are playing way these way too cute. if you want to lagg it up a bit then you have to be a beast. the problem w/ 1 is that your range going into the river is whatever u 3bet outta the sb preflop vs a button open, so his range is going to justify a hero call by thinking i showed weakness on turn and he can get here with a lot of air etc. If his range is what you think it is, then the best play is to just empty the clip on boards like this on 3 streets.

In 2, i like floating with this hand for sure. But there is no way in fuck he's going to be like well he'd prob check back a lot of his legitimate hands here on turn so im going to call down with 55. This isnt a spot people ever go for a c/r really so you should pretty much be betting your entire range for balance and adjust in the unlikely event that people start taking a bet-c/c-c/c line with AK and own you
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minSim
Old 05-19-2010, 09:09 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho View Post
you are playing way these way too cute. if you want to lagg it up a bit then you have to be a beast. the problem w/ 1 is that your range going into the river is whatever u 3bet outta the sb preflop vs a button open, so his range is going to justify a hero call by thinking i showed weakness on turn and he can get here with a lot of air etc. If his range is what you think it is, then the best play is to just empty the clip on boards like this on 3 streets.

In 2, i like floating with this hand for sure. But there is no way in fuck he's going to be like well he'd prob check back a lot of his legitimate hands here on turn so im going to call down with 55. This isnt a spot people ever go for a c/r really so you should pretty much be betting your entire range for balance and adjust in the unlikely event that people start taking a bet-c/c-c/c line with AK and own you
Great advice, thanks
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