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minSim
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06-03-2009, 09:24 PM
Post subject: Bluff catching with KQ
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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I always have trouble with these hands where I'm OOP and more or less bluffcatching with the top of my range.
The important villain in the hand plays 22/17/2.8 over 89 hands. Maybe he has QJ but imo that's usually too thin at my stakes. His flop leading range is wide and with his aggressive stats he's able to follow up on the turn, possibly river. At least that's my thinking.
Is this standard?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($14.45)
MP ($50)
Button ($50)
Hero (SB) ($129.60)
BB ($106.25)
Preflop: Hero is SB with Q , K
UTG bets $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, Hero calls $0.75, 1 fold
Flop: ($3.50) 5, Q, 2 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, Button bets $2.50, Hero calls $2.50, 1 fold
Turn: ($8.50) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $7, Hero calls $7
River: ($22.50) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $13.50, Hero calls $13.50
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Given the min raised pot and flat from BU, I think you can call 3st vs a 22/17/2.8. River is close, but I call vs this guy in the absence of better read.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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bikes
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a hot damn mess
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,468
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Really don't think theres anything else to do given how passive you played.
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"the world def needs more bikeses"
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Galapogos
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06-03-2009, 10:31 PM
Post subject: Re: Bluff catching with KQ
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#4 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by minSim
The important villain in the hand plays 22/17/2.8 over 89 hands. Maybe he has QJ but imo that's usually too thin at my stakes. His flop leading range is wide and with his aggressive stats he's able to follow up on the turn, possibly river. At least that's my thinking.
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I assume UTG is a donk? That's just judging by the min-raise. You can take a lot of AQ, and all QQ+ out of his range as he would 3 bet them. There's no two pair combos he should have here with those stats. The 2 pairing on the river is good because no one except 52/5's that call my 3-bets OOP make quads. And this is not him leading the flop, this is him betting in position after the flop has been checked to him.
All that considered, I want to shove for value here.
I also probably either 3-bet or fold this preflop once the button calls. Kind of a dumb hand to play multiway OOP for my tastes unless you think you can get a lot of value with it.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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u have TPTK imo so id call plus draws whiffed.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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kmind
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06-04-2009, 12:24 AM
Post subject: Re: Bluff catching with KQ
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#6 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by minSim
The important villain in the hand plays 22/17/2.8 over 89 hands. Maybe he has QJ but imo that's usually too thin at my stakes. His flop leading range is wide and with his aggressive stats he's able to follow up on the turn, possibly river. At least that's my thinking.
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I assume UTG is a donk? That's just judging by the min-raise. You can take a lot of AQ, and all QQ+ out of his range as he would 3 bet them. There's no two pair combos he should have here with those stats. The 2 pairing on the river is good because no one except 52/5's that call my 3-bets OOP make quads. And this is not him leading the flop, this is him betting in position after the flop has been checked to him.
All that considered, I want to shove for value here.
I also probably either 3-bet or fold this preflop once the button calls. Kind of a dumb hand to play multiway OOP for my tastes unless you think you can get a lot of value with it. |
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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UTG was a donk, 40/13 or something from memory.
I hoped someone would bring up preflop 3betting as an alternative.
You still like it with UTG having only 30bbs?
Imo I'm never getting called by worse if I shove river, but maybe I'm too short sighted?
I agree fully with your reasoning, apart from that I think AQ isn't a standard 3bet for BTN. I wonder if my 50NL components are that competent though.
Also are other turn/river lines debatable? If we're this much ahead, can we take more value by leading turn or river?
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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I don't like 3 betting here, I'd rather fold preflop in this particular hand due to UTG's stacksize. You're right, we can't take AQ totally out of his range, but I do think he 3 bets it a fair amount of the time so it's not a huge concern. I don't know about leading the turn. I honestly haven't put much thought into that line ever tbh. Not because I think it's bad, just haven't.
As for him calling with worse, I think you have a very hard time repping anything on this river but a missed flush draw. He's a reg so it's possible he's capable of making logic based hero calls.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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BigPapi
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rotterdam, Holland
Posts: 437
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pretty standard call on river, passive play/draws missed (flush and straight)
Against a less agressive player I can see leading river, since he wont bluff as much. I dont see us getting called by as many hands that we beat as he'll bet himself.
3betting preflop is an option, folding is as well. He's pretty short, so folding is ok
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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Make it 3 preflop and take the initiative in the hand.
River is easy fold.
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Marshall28
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06-04-2009, 08:57 AM
Post subject: Re: Bluff catching with KQ
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#11 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by minSim
I always have trouble with these hands where I'm OOP and more or less bluffcatching with the top of my range.
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Raise at some point and this won't happen to you.
Or get better at reading souls.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marshall28
Make it 3 preflop and take the initiative in the hand.
River is easy fold.
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3b pre so we can fold QJs/KJ? It's probably EV+, but mostly due to fold equity not how the hand plays out post-flop
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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3b because of how the hand ends up playing out post flop when you flop top pair.
I'm not gonna sit on these forums all night and respond to every post, you are gonna have to send me an IM if you wanna talk about it further.
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