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Biting it versus LAP

  
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 03-03-2008, 02:40 AM     Post subject: Biting it versus LAP #1 (permalink)  
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 Don't question minraise pre plz, if you want to know why go to blogs and operations forum. My image is borderline insane.

Opp is 24/10 and passive postflop. I really don't think I can profitably raise here on the flop because most of his range is going to be sets and flushes but i dont think ill be able to fold to a stack off on the flop or turn.

POKERSTARS GAME #15695381249: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2008/03/02 - 18:45:42 (ET)
Table 'Cimmeria IV' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: cathwoman ($123 in chips)
Seat 2: heybude ($311.25 in chips)
Seat 3: TheKaas ($235.10 in chips)
Seat 4: Shonar ($191 in chips)
Seat 5: quaril_ ($64 in chips)
Seat 6: the ronian ($298.95 in chips)
quaril_: posts small blind $1
the ronian: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [Js 7s]
cathwoman: folds
heybude: raises $2 to $4
TheKaas: folds
Shonar: calls $4
quaril_: folds
the ronian: calls $2
*** FLOP *** [7d 3d Jd]
the ronian: bets $10
heybude: calls $10
Shonar: calls $10
*** TURN *** [7d 3d Jd] [6c]
the ronian: checks
heybude: bets $36
Shonar: folds
the ronian: calls $36
*** RIVER *** [7d 3d Jd 6c] [Qs]
the ronian: checks
heybude: bets $86
the ronian: raises $144 to $230
heybude: folds
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microgrinder
Old 03-03-2008, 03:12 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Looks good to me, but I'm a noob.

I like the flop line, don't think I could ever find a fold if I were to raise and he 3 bets AI, although I wouldn't be overly happy about it. Probably better to flat here.

Is folding turn not possible if he C/Rs given our image?

River looks very std to me. He could very well call with worse than what you are holding, when he C/Rs I think he almost always has you beat.
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Deanglow
Old 03-03-2008, 04:14 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 I like your line but I might check behind the river a lot. A lot of his hands are Ad7x types that can't really call a bet. Interesting preflop; I don't think its bad since the best full ring player on stars only minraises PF. Obviously fold the river as played.
 
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 03-03-2008, 07:14 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 ronian can definitely show up with J-x so river bet is good, considering that is a far more likely hand than Q-J or a set. ISF can definitely show up with a missed draw.

the more interesting part is what can villain c/r on the river with? Are there players at 200NL who are good enough to adjust their game so drastically to specific players?
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Genitruc
Old 03-03-2008, 07:14 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 looks good
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Marshall28
Old 03-03-2008, 09:21 AM #6 (permalink)  
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i think players at 200nl definitely arent capable of making this play on the river as a bluff. i like the way you played it except for the minraise, though i havent read your article on it, i want to discourage action and get a heads up pot w/ a hand like J7s but im sure u know all this.

yeah if u raise flop u have to stack, and it's just a high variance play, personally, i do it. actually w/ your minraise preflop it kind of doesnt allow you to raise the flop since villains ranges are going to be much wider (i.e. they will call w/ any 2 suited cards) which makes their range weighted more towards a made flush on the flop, whereas had you raised more preflop stacking the flop would be more ideal since u r more likely to get called by broadway type hands that are raising the naked Ad or a J w/out a diamond.
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sauce123
Old 03-03-2008, 09:57 AM #7 (permalink)  
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this is like super std right/?
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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Ragnar4
Old 03-03-2008, 10:23 AM #8 (permalink)  
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I don't like flop line. I think that you're raise or fold on the flop. Let him tell you whether or not he has it. I mean it's pretty coomon knowledge that people won't 3-bet without the nuts or near it.
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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Marshall28
Old 03-03-2008, 11:08 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar4
I don't like flop line. I think that you're raise or fold on the flop. Let him tell you whether or not he has it. I mean it's pretty coomon knowledge that people won't 3-bet without the nuts or near it.
you dont have a solid understanding of the dynamics created by a game much more aggressive than a micro stakes one, there are a bunch of factors that go into playing this hand the way OP played it.
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Ragnar4
Old 03-03-2008, 11:55 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar4
I don't like flop line. I think that you're raise or fold on the flop. Let him tell you whether or not he has it. I mean it's pretty coomon knowledge that people won't 3-bet without the nuts or near it.
you dont have a solid understanding of the dynamics created by a game much more aggressive than a micro stakes one, there are a bunch of factors that go into playing this hand the way OP played it.
Now we're gettin' somewhere! What are they? Just names of the dynamics are fine, I can look 'em up on the intrawebs.
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 03-03-2008, 11:59 AM #11 (permalink)  
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 the reason the flop isnt a raise is because my hand doesnt play well enough against his stack off range.
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Marshall28
Old 03-03-2008, 12:00 PM #12 (permalink)  
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i gave my reasoning above ... u r asking really advanced questions, that's good but im trying to say, dont overthink things and focus on beating the limit you're playing, everything will make sense in time. im not trying to put u off, im trying to help, cuz if u try to grasp too many advanced concepts you will misuse them and probably cut back your learning curve significantly.
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Galapogos
Old 03-03-2008, 03:27 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall28
i gave my reasoning above ... u r asking really advanced questions, that's good but im trying to say, dont overthink things and focus on beating the limit you're playing, everything will make sense in time. im not trying to put u off, im trying to help, cuz if u try to grasp too many advanced concepts you will misuse them and probably cut back your learning curve significantly.
So you're saying he should go back to beating 1kNL HU instead of messing around at low stakes?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
 
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 03-03-2008, 05:52 PM #14 (permalink)  
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 played to perfection really.
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microgrinder
Old 03-03-2008, 06:06 PM     Post subject: Re: Biting it versus LAP #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
i dont think ill be able to fold to a stack off on the flop or turn.
Obv I think the hand turned out super standard. Im just interested in what you think a C/R on turn would mean from opponent and how you'd respond to it. Because I think I might find a fold there.
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Fnord
Old 03-03-2008, 06:27 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanglow
I like your line but I might check behind the river a lot.
I think finding good river value bets is pretty huge. Particularly in NLHE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Genitruc
Old 03-03-2008, 07:24 PM #17 (permalink)  
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 Getting better river odds here but kind of a similar situation :

Villain is 40/2/0.4 over 100+ hands

$200 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, March 02, 20:51:16 ET 2008
Table Table 125785 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: klesou45 ( $298.20 USD )
Seat 4: RystyRyan ( $231.96 USD )
Seat 6: Vthefoxtrio ( $422.83 USD )
Seat 3: mcskeeze ( $199.25 USD )
Seat 2: HERO ( $234.35 USD )
Seat 5: USSR999 ( $99 USD )
mcskeeze posts small blind [$1 USD].
RystyRyan posts big blind [$2 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO
USSR999 folds.
Vthefoxtrio calls [$2 USD]
HERO calls [$2 USD]
mcskeeze folds.
RystyRyan checks.
** Dealing Flop **
RystyRyan checks.
Vthefoxtrio checks.
HERO bets [$6 USD]
RystyRyan folds.
Vthefoxtrio calls [$6 USD]
** Dealing Turn **
Vthefoxtrio checks.
HERO bets [$17 USD]
Vthefoxtrio calls [$17 USD]
** Dealing River **
Vthefoxtrio checks.
HERO bets [$40 USD]
Vthefoxtrio raises [$92 USD]
HERO folds.
Vthefoxtrio does not show cards.
Vthefoxtrio wins $183 USD
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Marshall28
Old 03-03-2008, 08:05 PM #18 (permalink)  
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pretty much every draw got there, makes this a much easier decision imo ... b/f the river.
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