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Genitruc
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04-24-2007, 08:14 PM
Post subject: Big Overpair facing huge shove deep
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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I've been playing like a total nit (no PT but I'd guess I'm running around 16/13).
Villain has been on a mega-heater and hasn't lost a pot since he's gotten to the table. He seems like a pretty good tagg and hasn't been caught bluffing yet.
NL400 6-max
Hero has 850$ish
Villain has 780$ish
Hero is Btn, dealt  
Villain (UTG) raises to 16$
2 folds
Hero raises to 58$
Villain calls
Flop (pot = 122$) :   
Villain checks
Hero bets 105$
Villain raises to 722$ and is all in
Hero...
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Thee One
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 185
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Call and expect TT+ and AKs/AQs
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Raise to $90 pre-flop b/c stacks are so deep. As played puke and call. I think you'll see KK-TT here more than a set.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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call sadly.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Boy this could be alot. It looks an awful lot like the big draw or AKs. Is he capable of repping a draw with a set here? I probably grit my teeth and call. Sometimes I am very surprised at what I see.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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JL
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
Raise to $90 pre-flop b/c stacks are so deep. As played puke and call. I think you'll see KK-TT here more than a set.
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$90? that folds out so many hands that we want to call.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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if he only does this with AA KK AKh and sets you should call, but since that range is super tight it makes it even easier
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by JL
$90? that folds out so many hands that we want to call.
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You have to tailor your pre-flop 3-bet sizing to stack sizes to deny implied odds. And play it the same with AKo, JJ+. $80 might be fine too, it depends on the opponent.
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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stack-a-donk
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
Quote:
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Originally Posted by JL
$90? that folds out so many hands that we want to call.
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You have to tailor your pre-flop 3-bet sizing to stack sizes to deny implied odds. And play it the same with AKo, JJ+. $80 might be fine too, it depends on the opponent. |
if u 3 bet with wider range they dont have implied odds anyway
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
Quote:
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Originally Posted by JL
$90? that folds out so many hands that we want to call.
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You have to tailor your pre-flop 3-bet sizing to stack sizes to deny implied odds. And play it the same with AKo, JJ+. $80 might be fine too, it depends on the opponent. |
if u 3 bet with wider range they dont have implied odds anyway |
I was just going to put this, the wider you three bet the less you have to reraise pre. Although Genitruc says hes been playing like a total nit, so this seems like legitimate advice.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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I was sweating a friend of mine here and he was villain with 3s5s.
I suggested shoving as opposed to C/R since a heart will likely kill our action on the turn.
I was surprised when someone I respected said that shoving this deep was losing tons of value so I figured I'd post the hand.
Thx for the replies.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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i would rather lead the flop if i were him
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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don't you lead way more than most ppl though?
Vs a nit I think it's too likely you get called down for pot control on this flop, allowing for scare cards to hit, whereas they'll always bet their overpair when checked to and have a tough time folding.
I used to always try to bet/3bet big draws and sets but I almost think it's gotten to be transparent.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
i would rather lead the flop if i were him
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I'd do this if he wasnt a reg, cuz most regs don't balance there lead out enough.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Hijack!
Is the PF call with 53s +EV or -EV? Why? How much better is the PF call if we know he has Aces? How much worse is it if we use his standard threebetting range?
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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One time recently i was on the other end of this and was caught semi-bluffing, but the board was J97 with no flush draws and it was a 4-bet pot.
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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preflop call seems OK, getting ~18:1 in position vs. a nit.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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this is the easiest call ever
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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phantom_lord
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 349
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easy call with AA
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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just for the sake of it :
what is BB threshold for folding AA on this board to a CR?
250BB? 400BB?
Obv there's no rule about this but I've been wondering about situations like this since reading about aba's kk into aa 300BB deep.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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AA is not foldable here but KK would seem like a fairly standard crying fold for him this deep if you were both playing tight and respected each other--AA is way way stronger than KK/QQ facing a check-push in this situation. Because of this, I like a lead on the flop. If he raises, call and get it in on turn; if he calls, c/r turn.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Villain played this very badly if he had 35...
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
Villain played this very badly if he had 35...
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How else do you play it besides making an essential shove on the flop?
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