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Genitruc
Old 02-09-2008, 11:53 PM     Post subject: Big Hand #1 (permalink)  
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 Villain is 24/20/4. He has spewed a few times this session into the huge 60/11 fish (kantona) but not once when he wasn’t the preflop aggressor. He also likes to squeeze and would usually be raising 99+ here preflop imo. He hasn’t donked much at all so far.

I have some preflop history with villain where I 4-bet bluffed him pre and folded to a shove getting close to the right price. We haven’t tangled postflop though.

Another thing : the fish’s range is ginormous on the flop here. I’m curious about both the flop and turn obviously.

$400 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, February 09, 19:23:55 ET 2008
Table Table 130473 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 2: kantona10 ( $999.60 USD )
Seat 3: VILLAIN ( $400 USD )
Seat 4: Gambledore ( $870.60 USD )
Seat 6: HERO ( $896.90 USD )
Seat 1: everglide50 ( $394 USD )
Seat 5: kleinteufel ( $400 USD )
kantona10 posts small blind [$2 USD].
VILLAIN posts big blind [$4 USD].

** Dealing down cards **

Dealt to HERO
Gambledore folds.
HERO raises [$16 USD]
everglide50 folds.
kantona10 calls [$14 USD]
VILLAIN calls [$12 USD]

** Dealing Flop ** (47$)

kantona10 checks.
VILLAIN bets [$40 USD]
HERO calls [$40 USD]
kantona10 calls [$40 USD]

** Dealing Turn ** (165$)

kantona10 checks.
VILLAIN bets [$130 USD]
HERO…
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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sauce123
Old 02-09-2008, 11:59 PM #2 (permalink)  
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fold not rly too close
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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bode
Old 02-10-2008, 01:38 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 yeah villains obv not scared of anything here.
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
 
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Genitruc
Old 02-10-2008, 02:03 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 damn Sauce u ruined it now everyone's gonna be like OMGEZFOLD

btw does anybody ever fold this flop?

edit : or maybe just fold pre?
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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bode
Old 02-10-2008, 02:54 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 im definitly calling the flop because villlains range is wider there, but when he fires that strong again on the turn i instamuck. easier said than done obv but i dont really see whats doing this that you beat short of KK and thats a small part of his range.
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thizzSantaCruz
Old 02-10-2008, 03:23 AM #6 (permalink)  
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If I think about it with the reads given it seems like folding is probably good. If hes squeezing 99+ what do we beat? As played in game I would probably get it in on the flop and lose.
Flopping quads and boats like its my job
 
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Genitruc
Old 02-10-2008, 08:36 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 ya i foldec turn and asked villain after hand if aa was good on turn

he said yes but wouldn't tell me what he had. pretty sure it was a good fold.
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Marshall28
Old 02-10-2008, 10:42 AM #8 (permalink)  
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i snap jam and celebrate
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Marshall28
Old 02-10-2008, 10:43 AM #9 (permalink)  
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oh oops, i misread hand ... i raise flop and get it all in ASAP
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Marshall28
Old 02-10-2008, 10:52 AM #10 (permalink)  
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flat calling flop is like really bad reverse implied odds for you i think.... for 2 reasons ... one, you let kantonia or whatever in to draw at a great price for whatever kinda random crap he has, plus if villain is as spewy as u say and has such a huge range, you are crushing it. i can name off all of the possibilities he can be holding here if you want. ....

im not like super loose like this villain, but here are some hands --I-- MIGHT play like this if the situation seemed right...

66, 56, 76, 46, 78, any hand that had some type of draw that picked up a spade draw ... possible overpr's ...

its like, if you are folding this turn (which is like the safest turn you could find) why did you call the flop? hoping to get an ace? .. this doesn't make sense. hes playing 60% of hands, he can have so much, and you have aces on a draw heavy board, i can see if you think he's bluffy/spewy that you'd like to call flop to call him down and let him bluff off his chips, but it doesnt seem to make sense w/ the other dude behind u who can call and draw for cheap.

you also said he is a constant squeezer ... maybe he decided to slowplay a hand like KK/QQ/JJ? ... i realize unlikely, but possible ...

i dont know how tight you play, but if this were me, i got it in on flop and he had me beat, id really consider it a cooler.
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Marshall28
Old 02-10-2008, 10:56 AM #11 (permalink)  
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also, if hes any type of thinking player at all ....

this is a situation i occasionally like to just lead as a bluff into a thinking player, cuz it makes it really easy for me to tell where hes at if he just calls, i'll know when he can and can't stand heat. you played your hand like it was 88-JJ or 7x.
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Genitruc
Old 02-10-2008, 10:58 AM #12 (permalink)  
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 ya i don t really play tight and I posted the hand cuz it's unusual for me

but in this spot I mentioned that one key read was that villain didn't display spewiness when he wasn't the aggressor

also there's no way villain is slowplaying a big pair with the fish OOP vs him and terrible reverse implied odds vs his huge range, esp cuz the fish will prob call a 3-bet with K8o anyways.

I'm open to the idea of stacking off here and it s def my standard line but here it just seemed like a 90% equity gift I guess
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Genitruc
Old 02-10-2008, 10:59 AM #13 (permalink)  
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 also (re: your last post) if he s thinking at all here and knows I'm thinking then 99 is the same hand as AA here in terms of my range vs his (if I'm stacking off with AA then I'm stacking off with 99)
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Marshall28
Old 02-10-2008, 11:06 AM #14 (permalink)  
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so you're saying you think he thinks you'd interpret his lead bet as super strength and that you'd flat aces? man i dunno about that.

i still dont understand why you called the flop to fold the turn ... if you are calling flop you kinda have to call the turn ... did you think you'd freeze him if he had a smaller pair? if that's the csae, not stackign off is a HUGE mistake. your decision definitely needs to be made on the flop, flatting there is probably by far the worst option.
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Marshall28
Old 02-10-2008, 11:10 AM #15 (permalink)  
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i understand the inconsistency w/ his line, and im taking that into consideration, but you have to figure, if he's thinking at all, he's going to be mixing up his play at some point right? ... i mean, that kinda makes it seem to me like u have no choice. i think not stacking here is kind of a leak if it's something you start to do more often as players will be able to take advantage of you by being more aggressive (whether they know u folded aces or not). i think it's better for image anyways even if you are dead to two outs to just get it in here.
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Genitruc
Old 02-10-2008, 11:21 AM #16 (permalink)  
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 i hear you about my flatting flop underrepping my hand

but if he s thinking i have an overpair, what difference is there between 99 and AA?

I'm open to folding flop, which of course sounds insane.

in this particular spot I just think he knows I'm checking behind way too much with overs so he needs to build a pot with a big hand.

the worst big hand I see him having here is 67/78
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Irisheyes
Old 02-10-2008, 11:53 AM #17 (permalink)  
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Played well if you fold now imo.
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Marshall28
Old 02-10-2008, 01:41 PM #18 (permalink)  
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i guess u probly have to set a % to each holding in his range and determine how high the % is that hes bluffing or has a hand he won't commit to. if a bluff is a high enough % then a raise/fold line is much better than an open fold, and much much better than a call flop to fold turn.

its like you said, your hand is so under-repped, to just fold i think is a blunder, but i think the way the hand was played u have to call turn if u r calling flop, u probly have to call river too.
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