www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

Big Draws w/o Reads

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

DaNutsInYoEye

01-13-2006, 12:38 AM Post subject: Big Draws w/o Reads

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: St. Louis

Posts: 1,921

I'm interested in how some of you would have played these hands. Coincidentally, all three of these hands happened right after either my opponent or I sat down. I realize that, without reads other the betting pattern, this is basically a technical exercise. Don't forget to take into account stack sizes.

Hand 1: Just sat down - no reads.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) converter

UTG ($21)
MP ($153.75)
Hero ($100)
Button ($99.50)
SB ($22.70)
BB ($43.85)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 6

, 5

.
1 folds, Hero (poster) checks, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: ($2.50) 8

, A

, 7

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $3, BB raises to $6, Hero ????

Hand 2: MP has just sat down for the minimum buy-in and posted.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) converter

Hero ($103.95)
UTG ($40)
MP ($40)
Button ($198.70)
SB ($17.80)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

, J

. UTG posts a blind of $1. MP posts a blind of $1.
UTG (poster) checks, MP (poster) checks, Button calls $1, SB raises to $3, Hero calls $2, UTG folds, MP calls $2, Button calls $2.

Flop: ($13) 2

, K

, T

(4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $7, MP raises to $14, Button folds, SB folds, Hero ???

Hand 3: Again, new table - no reads.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) converter

CO ($34.25)
Button ($129.05)
SB ($80.50)
Hero ($99)
UTG ($87.40)
MP ($38.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

, A

.
1 fold, MP calls $1, CO calls $1, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises to $4, MP folds, CO calls $3, SB calls $3.

Flop: ($13) Q

, 5

, 4

(3 players)
SB bets $9, Hero raises to $20, CO folds, SB raises to $76.5, Hero ???

TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

aislephive

01-13-2006, 12:50 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: Downswinging holla!

Posts: 1,523

First hand I would come back over the top and put him to the test, if he pushes you have 15 outs with two cards to come, making you the favorite in the hand. Be more than willing to get it all in with him there.

Second hand I would do the same, push the rest in since he is shortstacked and a normal reraise puts him all in anyways. Again, 15 outs with two cards to come would make you a favorite against almost everything except a set, only difference is that a set can redraw to a boat and leave toy drawing dead, either way I'm getting it all in here.

The third hand is a little different, but I would still call here. You have the nut flush draw and TPTK, pretty much the best flop you can ask for with Ace-Queen suited. He could easily have a hand like 67 hearts which puts you at a big favorite. A set is possible, but considering how everybody loves to sandbag I would call here expecting to be up against bottom two, a straight draw, etc.

Basically, for all three hands all the money is going in the middle.

Bmxicle

01-13-2006, 01:11 AM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Vancouver

Posts: 947

3-bet to 15
3-bet to 37 or call, either works
call

Pingviini

01-13-2006, 09:02 AM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Bangkok

Posts: 1,090

raise to 3-4x PF, 3-bet to 15 is fine, he most likely has A
AI
hero gambles, 9-14 outs, 2-1 odds

Good spots which you have to get used to if you want to play more aggressive and improve your game.

"Poker is a simple math game" -Aba20

r8ed

01-13-2006, 02:19 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

Quote:

Originally Posted by aislephive

Basically, for all three hands all the money is going in the middle.

Fnord

01-13-2006, 04:12 PM

#6 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,339

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

In hand 1, with so little in the pot compared to the amount of money behind, I don't hate a call. A random idiot min-raiser won't turn-fuck you very often and will somtimes give away a free turn card.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Rondavu

01-13-2006, 05:50 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I have to admit big draws are a weak spot for me. I would call here as Fnord says, but I'm starting to question myself a little. The reason being that I don't want my action drying up when my card hits the turn as a scare card for my opponent. Are the implied odds for a hand like this up front more? I guess that's what I'm saying.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

Fnord

01-13-2006, 05:54 PM

#8 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,339

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

The reason being that I don't want my action drying up when my card hits the turn as a scare card for my opponent. Are the implied odds for a hand like this up front more?

Shania likes it when we sometimes actually have the scare card we're representing. Also, just calling allows us the chance to take the pot away when we catch air on the turn/river and are shown legit weakness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

DaNutsInYoEye

01-13-2006, 06:55 PM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: St. Louis

Posts: 1,921

I pushed on the first hand because I figured he had an A and thought there was a pretty good chance I had enough folding equity to push him off it. If not, I still had plenty of outs. The reason I didn't call was that if I missed on the turn, I had the possibility of facing a bet that I wouldn't quite have the pot odds to call with one card to come.

I pushed the second because I was out of position and any raise I make basically commits him to the hand anyways. A bigger raise putting him all-in might give me a little folding equity, but considering his stack size I don't think it gives me much.

The third hand was the hardest for me. I have no problem pushing this if I'm the one putting in the third raise, but I hate to be the one calling it. With ~2:1 pot odds though I figured the call was +EV against the range of hands he'd be pushing with.

If anyone was curious, in the first hand the guy had a set of 8's, but I caught the flush on the river (he was a 59.7% favorite). The second hand I was against top two pair and I again caught the flush on the river but it didn't matter because he filled on the turn (he was a 51.2% favorite). The third hand I was in the best shape out of the 3 being against bottom two pair, but the turn and river bricked for me and he took it down (I was a 50.9% favorite and we tie ~1% of the time).

TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?

Fnord

01-13-2006, 06:59 PM

#10 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,339

When I started pushing big draws, I noticed a funny thing. No one was folding, well hardly ever. So I started pushing big made hands on draw heavy boards. That's been a far more profitable addition to my game...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

DaNutsInYoEye

01-13-2006, 07:23 PM

#11 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: St. Louis

Posts: 1,921

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Exactly. I typically tend to think I have more folding equity than I actually do. I'm sure a lot of that is due to the fact that I don't play higher than $100NL and many players are looking for reasons to put money into play, but it's true. The fact that you're willing to push on a draw certainly helps you get calls when you happen to have a made hand though.

TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?

Latest Poker News
Bbickes	06-02-2012, 08:10 PM Merge Network 6.0 Looks to Retain Current Player Base
In an effort to perhaps keep players from moving to the new Revolution Network setup by the former Lock Poker, Merge Network has taken drastic steps to respond to their player base's requests to impro ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:50 PM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

Short-Handed NL Hold'em

Big Draws w/o Reads

Play for FREE and practice your game at...