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"BET FLOP!" yada yada...

  
 
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Genitruc
Old 10-24-2007, 10:31 PM     Post subject: "BET FLOP!" yada yada... #1 (permalink)  
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 Villain is laggy but I haven't seen him make any ridic bluffs postflop. He's running stupid at something like 44/24. The type to be constantly smack-talking in the chat and mocking ppl who bust.

My image is good. Haven't been at the table long but got it in with trips better kicker on a QQ5 board a cpl orbits ago. On that hand, I check-called flop, CR and then 4-bet shoved

$400 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, October 24, 18:02:35 ET 2007
Table Table 126324 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 4: bigdaddy1668 ( $81.87 USD )
Seat 6: Stephbom111 ( $378.74 USD )
Seat 3: HERO ( $794 USD )
Seat 5: ToMaTi25 ( $234.60 USD )
Seat 1: Crazy_Abdul ( $396 USD )
Seat 2: bluffsUout ( $430.40 USD )
Crazy_Abdul posts small blind [$2 USD].
bluffsUout posts big blind [$4 USD].

** Dealing down cards **

Dealt to HERO

HERO raises [$14 USD]
bigdaddy1668 folds.
ToMaTi25 calls [$14 USD]
Stephbom111 calls [$14 USD]
Crazy_Abdul folds.
bluffsUout folds.

** Dealing Flop **

HERO checks.
ToMaTi25 checks.
Stephbom111 checks.

** Dealing Turn **

HERO bets [$31 USD]
ToMaTi25 folds.
Stephbom111 raises [$62 USD]
HERO calls [$31 USD]

** Dealing River **

HERO checks.
Stephbom111 bets [$114 USD]
HERO...
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 10-24-2007, 11:11 PM #2 (permalink)  
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IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enoughIowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough
 How about shove turn?
Check out the new blog!!!
 
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 10-24-2007, 11:17 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 i don't think the Jack helps him nearly as often as he ends up missing a flush/straight. i can't see villain playing Q-J/Q-Q/J-J like this.


If villain had raised pot on the turn then i think shoving would be clearly better than calling.
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Genitruc
Old 10-25-2007, 12:38 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 i m not sure about shoving on the turn becuase it looks like he has AT or air

9T bets flop, JT might as well (no reason for either of us OOP ppl to have a Q)

So looks to me like his range is bluffs and air and I don't really like pushing him off of bluffs here

a T would be a bad river card because looks like he can def have Ax and be bluffing

or AT and I'm toast...

Can't completely discount JT but like I said, pretty sure a laggtardy player bets JT lots in position on this flop
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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benny999
Old 10-25-2007, 02:13 AM #5 (permalink)  
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i agree with ur analysis mostly - i doubt you'll see a decent 8+out type draw after flop is checked, and ppl like this usually will stab with a J too.

it's interesting that you increase the # of hands ppl will pay off with or bluff with by checking the flop, but it can put u in some crappy spots too.
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sauce123
Old 10-25-2007, 02:33 AM #6 (permalink)  
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title
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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Ravageur
Old 10-25-2007, 04:03 AM #7 (permalink)  
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If I was good I would fold river. I think 910 is a bigger part of his range than you give him credit for, especially due to river bet sizing (i think these type of chatty/flashy players bet bigger with a boat/bluff here)
People check draws in 3-way pots yo.
Family Cruise IMO
 
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Irisheyes
Old 10-25-2007, 04:38 AM #8 (permalink)  
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I really think you're beat. Turn you we're basically beating KJ and thats it.
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silu73
Old 10-25-2007, 08:39 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Bad spot to be in but I don't mind a fold in this situation. I would have pushed the turn against a decent raise a lot of the time though. On the river the only thing you are beating is a busted flush draw.
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Genitruc
Old 10-25-2007, 09:52 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silu73
Bad spot to be in but I don't mind a fold in this situation. I would have pushed the turn against a decent raise a lot of the time though. On the river the only thing you are beating is 89o.
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Genitruc
Old 10-26-2007, 09:56 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 i was hoping this thread might start a discussion about when laggs go crazy after you check the flop
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Miffed22001
Old 10-26-2007, 09:58 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 if you check flop to induce action you cant fold when you induce that action
or isnt that how the saying goes
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Genitruc
Old 10-26-2007, 10:20 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 ya it just struck me after I posted that the principal of pot-control is kind of nullified by being OOP vs an aggro lagg.

I checked flop since I couldn't really stand a raise on the flop and felt both villain might be capable of doing it with a hand like 9T, KT or a FD.

Also checked flop cuz so many turns will be beautiful for my hand (heart, K, Q, T) taking a check-call line seemed fine.

Instead, my check brought the pot completely out of control cuz laggy dood read me for being weak.
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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mixchange
Old 10-26-2007, 10:26 PM #14 (permalink)  
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its just such a draw heavy flop that I don't see how we don't bet, especially ina multiway there are soooooo many cards that can beat you, I don't get the logic here at all behind 'getting action' on this one.
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Genitruc
Old 10-26-2007, 10:29 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixchange
its just such a draw heavy flop that I don't see how we don't bet, especially ina multiway there are soooooo many cards that can beat you, I don't get the logic here at all behind 'getting action' on this one.
logic wasn't to "get action", it was to slow it down and hope to see the turn without the pot being bloated

but the logic got flipped on its head because of laggy villain who decided to bluffraise turn after I pot-controlled (which ended up being a "trap" ironically) the flop.
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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mixchange
Old 10-26-2007, 11:02 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genitruc
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixchange
its just such a draw heavy flop that I don't see how we don't bet, especially ina multiway there are soooooo many cards that can beat you, I don't get the logic here at all behind 'getting action' on this one.
logic wasn't to "get action", it was to slow it down and hope to see the turn without the pot being bloated

but the logic got flipped on its head because of laggy villain who decided to bluffraise turn after I pot-controlled (which ended up being a "trap" ironically) the flop.

Sorry, I was going off what Miffed said assuming you did check for action. Sometimes I like to do pot control, but with so many draws and cards that beat you it seems more like giving up to me.
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