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Basic midstakes preflop strategy

  
 
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 02-22-2007, 01:59 AM     Post subject: Basic midstakes preflop strategy #1 (permalink)  
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 this pertains to .5/1 and 1/2 6-max. Pretty much i want to know what everyone thinks of these certain preflop things.

1. Is it profitable to raise 67s UTG if you play it well? (how about MP)
2. Is it profitable to call a button raise from a LAGG (bad or decent) from the SB with 22?
3. Do you consider 23s or 34s raising hands in late position?
4. Do you raise QTo on the CO?
5. How much of the opponents stack do you reraise to deny him "set odds."?

My answers:
1. Yes and yes
2. probably not unless he's pretty bad
3. Yes
4. No
5. i usually make it so he has to call off 1/9 of his stack.
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gabe
Old 02-22-2007, 02:25 AM #2 (permalink)  
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theres more to preflop than your cards and your position
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 02-22-2007, 03:00 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
theres more to preflop than your cards and your position
K I'll answer what he means.
1. you can raise a lot of cards UTG if the table is passive. You definetely don't if there are a lot of people with wide reraising ranges. And its always better if they are weak.
2. Yes it is but you have to bluff sometimes/ thin call
3. it depends again on how light the blinds are threebetting. If they are rocky or loose/weak tatn yeah u can raise.
4.^^^^^
5. I make sure to raise him 1/10th his stack, because a lot of people think they can call with all pp's at that price but they are actually losing a lot of money.

Pretty much if the table is passive u should raise a lot more and if it's aggressive you should raise a less. Also I would probably raise more on weak tables than fishy ones.
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NLHE lahooozaher
Old 02-22-2007, 03:22 AM #4 (permalink)  
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"5. I make sure to raise him 1/10th his stack, because a lot of people think they can call with all pp's at that price but they are actually losing a lot of money."

I've always thought this to, but doesn't the money already in the pot give the villain enough implied odds to flop a set? If you are 150 bbs deep, do you adjust and make a huge reraise?
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 02-22-2007, 05:05 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLHE lahooozaher
"5. I make sure to raise him 1/10th his stack, because a lot of people think they can call with all pp's at that price but they are actually losing a lot of money."

I've always thought this to, but doesn't the money already in the pot give the villain enough implied odds to flop a set? If you are 150 bbs deep, do you adjust and make a huge reraise?
Yes, you should adjust your reraises according to stack sizes.
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NLHE lahooozaher
Old 02-22-2007, 05:09 AM #6 (permalink)  
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What if you would actually like to play postflop though? People are not going to call off 15-25 morebbs with the garbage they will for the 10 more I usually charge.
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gabe
Old 02-22-2007, 05:12 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massimo
Quote:
Originally Posted by NLHE lahooozaher
"5. I make sure to raise him 1/10th his stack, because a lot of people think they can call with all pp's at that price but they are actually losing a lot of money."

I've always thought this to, but doesn't the money already in the pot give the villain enough implied odds to flop a set? If you are 150 bbs deep, do you adjust and make a huge reraise?
Yes, you should adjust your reraises according to stack sizes.
i dont do this, theres other ways to get the same effct
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 02-22-2007, 06:04 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Massimo
Quote:
Originally Posted by NLHE lahooozaher
"5. I make sure to raise him 1/10th his stack, because a lot of people think they can call with all pp's at that price but they are actually losing a lot of money."

I've always thought this to, but doesn't the money already in the pot give the villain enough implied odds to flop a set? If you are 150 bbs deep, do you adjust and make a huge reraise?
Yes, you should adjust your reraises according to stack sizes.
i dont do this, theres other ways to get the same effct
Explain please. I find this interesting
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Jager
Old 02-22-2007, 06:07 AM #9 (permalink)  
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1. Yes
2. Yes, but I am not just looking for set value...
3. No, unless the blinds are super tight. The problem here is that these hands make bad low end str8's, are worthless 2 pair(someone usually has a wheel), and they are never a high flush. Because of these its hard to win a big hand with them cutting into your implied odds.
4. Yes
5. I usually reraise 3.5x as standard, and I don't adjust this based on stack sizes only on villain.

I have a standard starting hand 'chart' that I use when I sit down at a any table. After a few orbits I adjust based on table conditions. Example: last week sometime I found myself with 4 rocks(highest VPIP of any of them was 12) and a fish. I stacked the fish, then another rock sat down, after an orbit I found myself raising 30% UTG. I killed them for a buyin, almost 45 min. worth, before any of them caught on. During this time the best hand I was dealt was 66.
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 02-22-2007, 06:23 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jager

I have a standard starting hand 'chart' that I use when I sit down at a any table. After a few orbits I adjust based on table conditions. Example: last week sometime I found myself with 4 rocks(highest VPIP of any of them was 12) and a fish. I stacked the fish, then another rock sat down, after an orbit I found myself raising 30% UTG. I killed them for a buyin, almost 45 min. worth, before any of them caught on. During this time the best hand I was dealt was 66.
Lol, you don't just change tables when the rocks show up?
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Jager
Old 02-22-2007, 06:29 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Why change tables? I had a 200+ bbs stack and I new all of their calling ranges were about 22+, with reraising QQ+/AK. I just picked up the blinds and took down most pots with cbets. Maybe the easiest buyin I ever made...
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 02-22-2007, 06:34 AM #12 (permalink)  
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 Back on the reraising... I really like reraising based on stack sizes becuase most 100 NL people don't get why your reraise amount is changing. They'll see you reraise to 17 OOP and then you showdown AA, and the oipponent thinks "oh, he must reraise more with AA." Then he won't realize what's going on for a while and misread you later on. Most people will never get it.
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JL
Old 02-22-2007, 07:37 AM #13 (permalink)  
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 1/10th his stack eh?
hmm... I've never thought about that.

Well, what happens if villain has $200 and he raises it up to $8?
you would re-raise 1/10th his stack? well that would be $20...now is that raise to $20? or an additional $20 upto $28?
I think the latter would make sense because raising to $20 is only 2.5x his raise, which is not very significant.

Did I answer my own question?
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Jager
Old 02-22-2007, 08:27 AM #14 (permalink)  
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JL if you reraise an $8 raise to 3.5x, it is $28.
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Renton
Old 02-22-2007, 11:09 AM     Post subject: Re: Basic midstakes preflop strategy #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massimo
this pertains to .5/1 and 1/2 6-max. Pretty much i want to know what everyone thinks of these certain preflop things.

1. Is it profitable to raise 67s UTG if you play it well? (how about MP)
2. Is it profitable to call a button raise from a LAGG (bad or decent) from the SB with 22?
3. Do you consider 23s or 34s raising hands in late position?
4. Do you raise QTo on the CO?
5. How much of the opponents stack do you reraise to deny him "set odds."?

My answers:
1. Yes and yes
2. probably not unless he's pretty bad
3. Yes
4. No
5. i usually make it so he has to call off 1/9 of his stack.
1.No, unless u have a tight image and plan on making some two/three barrel bluffs. Yes.

2. No, unless u checkraise bluff some flops, or donkbet bluff some flops (after which u will often have to c/r the turn as a bluff, or bet again.

3. No, these hands are trash. You will need to be bluffing a lot.

4. Yes, probably 90+% of the time.

5. This is a myth. Threebet a wide enough range so that he never has "set odds." However, if I had reason to believe that he had reason to believe that i was reraising a strong hand, and if i actually had a strong hand (a lot of variables lol), I'd probably make it his raise + like 10% of the remaining stacks, or 3.5x the raise, whatever is larger. Also i'd be making slightly smaller raises with position and slightly larger raises oop.
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andy-akb
Old 02-22-2007, 03:17 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massimo
Quote:
Originally Posted by NLHE lahooozaher
"5. I make sure to raise him 1/10th his stack, because a lot of people think they can call with all pp's at that price but they are actually losing a lot of money."

I've always thought this to, but doesn't the money already in the pot give the villain enough implied odds to flop a set? If you are 150 bbs deep, do you adjust and make a huge reraise?
Yes, you should adjust your reraises according to stack sizes.
What about your pre flop opens? If you are 200bb deep, do you raise to 7xBB+1BB per limper? Doesnt this essentially negate any postflop advantage to having a deep stack?

Quote:
1. Is it profitable to raise 67s UTG if you play it well? (how about MP)
2. Is it profitable to call a button raise from a LAGG (bad or decent) from the SB with 22?
3. Do you consider 23s or 34s raising hands in late position?
4. Do you raise QTo on the CO?
5. How much of the opponents stack do you reraise to deny him "set odds."?
1. This question is formed weird. If you can play a hand well, then play it. However, what does it mean to play it well? UTG you are going to have a hard time playing SCs and it will not be easy to "play it well." I would say that this is not profitable in EP, MP it wouldnt be bad but it depends a lot on the table.
2. Yes. Now, if the question were to ask if it were profitable to call a reraise from a player with a light 3betting range and semi-shallow stacks, Id say no.
3. No, not even for an open raise, and I raise a ton of shit in LP
4. Not with limpers, but Ill very often open with this hand in CO
5. In position I make a PSRr, OOP I make it slightly larger. In position we should be able to rely on our postflop game to cut down on his implied odds, OOP that isnt as easy so we should be making larger reraises.
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Miffed22001
Old 02-22-2007, 04:47 PM #17 (permalink)  
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 1.
yes, but you need to playing in the correct games. i posted a daft tales of poker thread raising utg with 76o. this isnt regualar just a mix it up play. So yeah, it should be profitable but not as a permanent play, i think you should fold this here too sometimes.
I totally disagree if anyone says never raise here. Thats dumb IMO.

2.
Yes if you can push him off hands post flop. Mostly no, but if your playing against someone who stacks off light then yes.

3.
Sometimes, same reasons as above. If im playing with weak tights then definitly.

4.
Normally, but i need to be in the right seat to play this and ive been looking for generally good games rather than good seats recently.
This is much more game/table dependant.

5.
Amounts doesnt concern me to be honest because im reraising a lot in certain games and not a lot in others, and the players i play with will overplay second best hands anyway so it isnt such a problem.
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sauce123
Old 02-22-2007, 11:53 PM #18 (permalink)  
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1. No, Mp maybe but only if the blinds call too much, this is a balancing play not a profitable one of itself. Wish it was though.

2. Not unless hes terrible, I cant play 22 postflop well enough to win money here. A 3bet is fine tho and I would 3bet this about 1/3 of the time.

3. Yes, depending on table conditions, specially at passive or tight tables obviously.

4. Usually, again, table dependent.

5. This is more complicated. In position I don't even consider set odds really as I believe I can get away postflop if im beat. I usually raise 3x the original raise in position.

OOP I definitely consider set odds, usually re raising 1/8th of my stack and expecting to get called by 77+ almost always (again I play lag and raise a wide range). Basically I want them to be making a big mistake to be calling small/midpairs when I 3bet OOP as they will almost always stack me if they hit, but in position I think the extra value I can extract postflop is more important than set odds.

I also raise less in each case as my reads on villains are more and more accurate (obviously this doesn't apply to a station)... Sauce.
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aislephive
Old 02-24-2007, 06:07 AM #19 (permalink)  
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1. I do, and in a nutshell it may be slightly -EV by itself, but by having a wider raising range, it helps my image and me getting paid off, etcetera.
2. I call maybe 5-10% of the time and look to c/r favorable flops or donk some flops while usually c/fing when I miss. Generally I'll 3bet, but I imagine I could profitably call here, hard to say though.
3. Depends on my mood, 34s I'll often raise from the CO/button but 23s I often fold unless the blinds are tight.
4. Yes.
5. You don't have to 3bet to a certain amount to deny "set odds." Just open your reraising range up. I 3 bet often and my 3 bet sizes are very small compared to others. 3x usually in and out of position followed by 3/4 pot on the flop. Basically I don't mind if my 3 bets get called, especially by somebody set-mining. They'll fold the flop unimproved a ton when I have air which is most of my range here.
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