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Axs concepts...

  
 
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Jager
Old 01-17-2007, 02:48 AM     Post subject: Axs concepts... #1 (permalink)  
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This mainly applies to A9s and under. I am interested in strategies on playing these hands either in or out of position. I am only BE lifetime with these hands, but I feel I should be doing better with them. I seem that I only win big hands with these when I out flush someone or hit the 2 pair. I have a tough time trying to determine when I pair my A if it is good. The most interesting thing I seen lately is people pushing these hands oop, when they feel a late position flop raiser is also on their flush draw...ie you open with Ad 5d button calls flop comes Qd 9d 4c you cbet, button raises 3x, you push button turns 6d 7d. This is obviously a read based situation, but is this something that you do often? Are there any other situations that I am missing opportunities on?
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DaNutsInYoEye
Old 01-17-2007, 06:55 AM #2 (permalink)  
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They're also good hands to 4-bet shove with on occasion when someone is habitually 3-betting you light.
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Jager
Old 01-18-2007, 08:57 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye
They're also good hands to 4-bet shove with on occasion when someone is habitually 3-betting you light.
In an effort to try this...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($310.80)
Hero ($200)
Button ($245)
SB ($274)
BB ($194)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A, 5.
1 fold, Hero raises to $8, 2 folds, BB raises to $24, Hero raises to $200, BB calls $170 (All-In).

Flop: ($395) A, 4, 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($395) T (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($395) 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $395

Results in white below:
BB has Kd Ks (one pair, kings).
Hero has Ac 5c (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins $395.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($205.30)
BB ($312)
Hero ($246.10)
MP ($206.40)
CO ($342.65)
Button ($163.85)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 4, A.
Hero raises to $8, MP raises to $24, 4 folds, Hero raises to $246.1, MP calls $182.40 (All-In).

Flop: ($455.50) 5, A, 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($455.50) T (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($455.50) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $455.50

Results in white below:
Hero has 4d Ad (one pair, aces).
MP has Ks Kc (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins $455.50.

These were my 1st 2 attempts at this.
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apunisher
Old 01-18-2007, 08:21 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Outcome: Hero wins $395.
Outcome: Hero wins $455.50.

Nhs Sir!!!
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 01-18-2007, 08:34 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 lol clearly your read is off or you're unlucky.
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Fnord
Old 01-18-2007, 08:49 PM #6 (permalink)  
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He's not that big of a dog to anything but Aces.

How many folds did you get?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Jager
Old 01-19-2007, 01:22 AM #7 (permalink)  
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I got zero folds. These are the only 2 hands I had were this situation came up.
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Jager
Old 01-19-2007, 06:43 AM #8 (permalink)  
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I've now tried this 5 times and have gotten ZERO folds...
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jackvance
Old 01-19-2007, 09:09 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 Seems like people are never 3betting you without the goods then? Anyway you're 33% vs KK and 31% vs AKo so if we give you an average equity of 1/3:

I'll base this on the first example but give villain a $200 stack for simplicity. If he folds, you win $33. If he calls and you win, you win another $176, so $209. If he calls and you lose, you lose the rest you shoved in, $192.

This gives the EV equation
33x + (1-x) [ 1/3*209 - 2/3*192]

Conclusion: if villain fold more than 64%, this is +EV, if villain folds less than that, it is a -EV play.

(btw correct my math if it is wrong)
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Jager
Old 01-19-2007, 09:47 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Yes you need villain to fold 2/3 of the time...
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gabe
Old 01-19-2007, 02:12 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye
They're also good hands to 4-bet shove with on occasion when someone is habitually 3-betting you light.
i think this is overrated
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Renton
Old 01-19-2007, 02:20 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye
They're also good hands to 4-bet shove with on occasion when someone is habitually 3-betting you light.
i think this is overrated
thats coz u like flops
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 01-19-2007, 02:50 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye
They're also good hands to 4-bet shove with on occasion when someone is habitually 3-betting you light.
i think this is overrated
It could be overrated but it is easily +EV and balanced.
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