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sauce123
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07-06-2010, 12:00 AM
Post subject: ask me anything
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Im on a train ride to providence and i dont have any action. ive been playing poker since 2006 or so, started at 25nl, have played up to 500/1k nl and now play mostly 25/50 nl and plo, mostly hu, but im a competent 6max player as well.
ask away
preferably no super wordy personal bio type of stuff besides very specific things
hands, theory, whatever, random advice
ill be on here for an hour and a half or so
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,217
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How do I get better in 3 bet pots without spewing a bunch of monies trying to learn?
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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thanks sauce
how do you use math in the game when it comes to ranges, HUD's and such.
using stove or other things when you're in a hand and you ignore what hand you actually have and try and figure out a spot.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
How do I get better in 3 bet pots without spewing a bunch of monies trying to learn?
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go in HEM and filter for situations where you flatted a 3bet or 3bet with a weak hand. then review your play. note whether you have been + ev in these spots over your sample, and whether you should tighten or loosen up by position
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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JL
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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What was the biggest "breakthrough" in your game that helped launch you from SSNL/MSNL to HSNL?
And, do you think the guide you wrote in 2007 is still applicable to today's games?
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bspahn
thanks sauce
how do you use math in the game when it comes to ranges, HUD's and such.
using stove or other things when you're in a hand and you ignore what hand you actually have and try and figure out a spot.
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read mathematics of poker by bill chen and ankenmann for a good start
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,837
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What was the biggest thing to help you break through. I have heard some say it's having the right people to converse with over a length of time as opposed to posting hands and getting forum advice like max posted here Asking the Right Questions :Suited Aces . Others have said it's an ability to not see the money for what it's worth and only see the value of bets raises and folds. EV over actual dollar figures if that makes sense.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JL
What was the biggest "breakthrough" in your game that helped launch you from SSNL/MSNL to HSNL?
And, do you think the guide you wrote in 2007 is still applicable to today's games?
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the biggest two breakthroughs I had were when I first started realizing the value of position and semibluffing with 8+ out draws even against strong ranges
i had a notable phase where everytime i flopped a draw i would raise/bet until i was all in on the flop. at this time people would still raise for information a lot, and i think they made a lot of incorrect folds. i would just take the scariest line i could alwyas.
i also had a phase where i would 3bet in position with almost atc and cbet small.
i also had a phase where anytime i flopped a bluffcatcher between top pair and btm pair i would c/c down regardless of the action
i was also not afraid to move up/down aggressively
i then analyzed all of these experiments in PT
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyms
What was the biggest thing to help you break through. I have heard some say it's having the right people to converse with over a length of time as opposed to posting hands and getting forum advice like max posted here Asking the Right Questions :Suited Aces . Others have said it's an ability to not see the money for what it's worth and only see the value of bets raises and folds. EV over actual dollar figures if that makes sense. |
its pretty much impossible to win at poker if u dont view it as an abstract game of betting for EV as opposed to actual money. thats just square one.
i dont think talking over hands is essential at all, the most important thing is studying by yourself and playing a ton of hands
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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Duffryn
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 115
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Can you give an example of how you identified a way to exploit an opponent and what/how you adjusted?
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leftygrove
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Two Pair
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 27
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I'm just going to throw out a bunch of questions, and you can choose to answer the ones you like, if you feel like answering any.
1) How often do you play/how do you prefer to split up your time in sessions?
2) Live or online? (differences, which you prefer)
3) How do you feel about the future of online poker? Do you think you'll be doing this in 5, 10, 20 years?
4) How do you feel you handle tilt? Any advice about being emotionally attached to your results?
Kind regards
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sweetlemon69
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 296
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I'm not asking a question, nor play at all anymore, but wanted to say when I did you were by far the best teacher on here. amazing vids too. Always provided constructive criticism and such. Keep it up man, cheers!
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L_Clan_Sup3rMaN
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 834
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What kind of hrs were you putting in when your started and middle stages versus now? What are the major changes that allowed to your increase your hrs to what you wanted?
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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rank HU nl: patrik, jungleman, ike, durrr
rank in ev for 10/20+ beasts: girlfriend, gym, good poker friends, good nonpoker friends
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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DropTheBanana
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High Card
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Humping the American Dream
Posts: 11
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Cross posted from leggo blog:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
This is just cool because I knew this was going to happen from the turn onward and I was thinking 'man I get to make a 9 high snap call, this is so cool !'.
Seat 1: Sauce1234 ( $17909.25 USD )
Seat 2: theASHMAN103 ( $13650.50 USD )
theASHMAN103 posts small blind [$25.00 USD].
Sauce1234 posts big blind [$50.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Sauce1234 [ 3c 9c ]
theASHMAN103 raises [$125.00 USD]
Sauce1234 calls [$100.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ac, 6s, Js ]
Sauce1234 checks
theASHMAN103 checks
** Dealing Turn ** [ Kh ]
Sauce1234 checks
theASHMAN103 checks
** Dealing River ** [ Th ]
Sauce1234 checks
theASHMAN103 bets [$225.00 USD]
Sauce1234 calls [$225.00 USD]
theASHMAN103 shows [5h, 3h ]
Sauce1234 shows [3c, 9c ]
Sauce1234 wins $749.50 USD from main pot |
Q1: I realize you and Ashton have history and meta together so I understand you have you're reasons for the river call.
My question is about the PF flat.
Given the almost robotic and standard PF ranges in todays MSNL HU games, against competent regulars at 2/4 & 3/6 who obv read forums and watch aejones videos, do you think it's imortant to balance you're single raise flatting range with dogshit air-ish type hands like this? Is this something you did before 25/50+ or didn't incorporate until playing against higher level thinking players?
Q2: Are you going to start making more LP videos now that you're playing regularly again?
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffryn
Can you give an example of how you identified a way to exploit an opponent and what/how you adjusted?
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If I'm playing a regular hu for multiple sessions, I'll study away from the table and just solve for a general game plan against a specific opponent. mostly because it allows me to focus my decision making on smaller details.
i think i get away with beating a lot of ppl who play more disciplined poker than me and who make better river decisions than me by adjusting much better than them. adjusting effectively is prob the single best part of my hu poker game.
a quick example. a strong regular opponent i played would flat about 30% of his hands in the BB against my btn open. he would c/r flop with a balanced range, but would c/r the turn with TP+ and the occasional bluff but mostly bet out the turn with stronger semibluffs, overcards and weaker made hands for value/protection. he would also c/r the river with his whiffed turn c/r hands.
quiz: what's my adjustment ?? (the hard part is gathering the information I just supplied, the application is easier) By adjustment I mean how do I play all the groups of hands in my range given this info.
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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How much of your skill is due to a "gift" vs hard work and studying the game?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftygrove
I'm just going to throw out a bunch of questions, and you can choose to answer the ones you like, if you feel like answering any.
1) How often do you play/how do you prefer to split up your time in sessions?
2) Live or online? (differences, which you prefer)
3) How do you feel about the future of online poker? Do you think you'll be doing this in 5, 10, 20 years?
4) How do you feel you handle tilt? Any advice about being emotionally attached to your results?
Kind regards
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1) I tend to play in bunches. when im passionate about poker ill play 6+ hours a day and study another 4.
2) I hate live poker because its slow, uncomfortable and people complain too much.
3) I don't know about online poker, but I do know I'll always be able to make a living as a poker player or bettor/investor of some kind. I don't know if I will want to though.
4) the most important thing for me is to remain 100% focused on the action. I check results when my mind wanders, so dont let it wander. I tilt less when I am very sure I played as well as I can, which is why I analyze my play more than most. Also, exercise/family/friends/significant others are very important if you are a pro and don't want to have a heart attack.
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L_Clan_Sup3rMaN
What kind of hrs were you putting in when your started and middle stages versus now? What are the major changes that allowed to your increase your hrs to what you wanted?
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Once I realized I could analyze my play with pokertracker I knew I was going to never have to work again and I knew I was going to get as good as I could at this game. So immediately after I discovered PT I played at least 4 hours and as much as 16 hours a day for 2 years or so. I dont think thats possible though if you dont love the game, and I love the game more than almost anyone.
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
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rank HU nl: patrik, jungleman, ike, durrr
rank in ev for 10/20+ beasts: girlfriend, gym, good poker friends, good nonpoker friends
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HU NL: this is tough cause ive played all of them and havent played a lot with any of them and all of them are probably better than me so wtf do i know.
1. Jungleman. He has a really solid analytical knowledge of the game, sick work ethic and great instincts as well and he's crushing everyone over a 750k hand sample.
2. Durrr. He plays in really tough games, it seems like he plays like shit half the time and he still wins over big samples. Maybe he knows something we don't.
3. Ike. He is scary as shit to play, and he puts you in awful spots. That being said, his results are just much weaker than Durrr or Jungle, and he initially got his roll to play high stakes winning a donkament. So I dont know if being tough = being the best. Though I wouldnt be at all surprised if tomorrow he just started beating everyone and won all the monies.
4. Patrik. He hasn't won at nlhe in forever, and says all the good nlhe players are better than him right now. I'll take him at his word.
hah ok question 2.
I think you would prob make the most money at poker if you were just a robot and got up and played/studied and then went to the gym once in awhile. So I think anything else besides exactly poker/gym is a distraction and makes you a worse player but a much happier person. And I guess you cant play poker if you are mentally insane.
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DropTheBanana
Cross posted from leggo blog:
Q1: I realize you and Ashton have history and meta together so I understand you have you're reasons for the river call.
My question is about the PF flat.
Given the almost robotic and standard PF ranges in todays MSNL HU games, against competent regulars at 2/4 & 3/6 who obv read forums and watch aejones videos, do you think it's imortant to balance you're single raise flatting range with dogshit air-ish type hands like this? Is this something you did before 25/50+ or didn't incorporate until playing against higher level thinking players?
Q2: Are you going to start making more LP videos now that you're playing regularly again?
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Q1- My strategy is to lose as little as I can from the BB. If I think I can play 92s and lose less than 1 bb/hand by calling or raising, that's what I'm going to do. Also, it's suited, that isn't dogshit air ! Higher thinking has nothing to do with it, analysis has shown me I do better playing more hands, so I keep playing them even if it feels gross.
Q2- It's really unlikely I will make more videos because I make less for videos than I do from playing, making people better directly decreases my winrate and lets my regular opponents know how I think, and I hate Camtasia
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galapogos
How much of your skill is due to a "gift" vs hard work and studying the game?
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I'm not sure here actually.
A few key gifts I have is not caring much about money and completely distancing myself from it when I play. I also just love poker and can't get enough of it, which is why I study/play so much. Are those gifts ? Kind of. It seems like maybe you could replicate them with 'hard work' but would you want to ? I know I didn't have the distance from money at first, that developed over time and actually got easier as stakes got higher because my living expenses weren't on the line anymore.
I definitely think most of my success from poker is from having a good memory and always getting better. I know back in highschool when we first started playing and no one knew how to play I sucked. I was probably bottom 30% of my friend group at poker for the first 6 months and I'm typically good at games. I think the #1 thing for me was just work. I've read pretty much every poker book/forum article/ blog post/ watched every video ever at least once. I just keep studying and playing and thinking critically about my play.
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JL
What was the biggest "breakthrough" in your game that helped launch you from SSNL/MSNL to HSNL?
And, do you think the guide you wrote in 2007 is still applicable to today's games?
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I just re-read my guide and I think it's pretty trashy now. You could prob beat 50nl with it on a good day. it is also poorly written and extremely vague and contradicts itself in adjacent sentences.
if you interpreted it well you might be able to beat up to 200nl, I donno.
I think it does make an attempt at getting you to play raise/fold in most spots and then applying aggression postflop while maintaining a tight image. That's a strong multitabling strategy so I think the spirit of the guide is ok.
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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lancelott_
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 151
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Hi sauce, thx for doing it! nice to have you on this forum.
I`m currently trying to beat nl200 on FTP, it seems that this lvl is much harder than previous ones. Seems like in order to start winning at this stake, it`s not enough just not making many mistakes on your own, but you need to start forcing ppl to make mistakes. Regs are way more aggro and barrel in spots where they normaly shouldn`t (blanks etc..). Also nobody give up vs CB`s. What would your advice be when trying to beat a new lvl like that?
I`m thinking about taking 6h of coaching (which is going to be ~1k$) for good 1k nl reg to review/sweat me. Do you think getting coaching is worth it, esp if i struggle atm with new limit (played ~22k hands and broke even in EV, but lost 5BI on nl200)?
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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You 3bet BUvCO with KdTc against an aggressive regular and he calls. Flop comes K82ss and assume when he checks flop/turn (if you bet those streets) he calls. Generally, which streets are you betting when the turn and river are 7x3x? Or is this too opponent specific?
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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hey guys, thread closed, off train
gl all
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Thanks for doing this sauce!
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Duffryn
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 115
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yes, thanks. Very interesting thread.
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,526
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Sick thread, thanks for this sauce
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givememyleg
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
Posts: 5,042
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great read, ty
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Get your own badge! Click profile at the top and FTR Badge from the left nav.
"The Dragon in My Garage" by Carl Sagan
I say onto you, I've felt the dragon! I felt the touch of his tail, the breath of his fire, and I know without a shadow of a doubt that the dragon exists!
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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very nice, thanks!
more train rides imo.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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Toadstool
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
If I'm playing a regular hu for multiple sessions, I'll study away from the table and just solve for a general game plan against a specific opponent. mostly because it allows me to focus my decision making on smaller details.
i think i get away with beating a lot of ppl who play more disciplined poker than me and who make better river decisions than me by adjusting much better than them. adjusting effectively is prob the single best part of my hu poker game.
a quick example. a strong regular opponent i played would flat about 30% of his hands in the BB against my btn open. he would c/r flop with a balanced range, but would c/r the turn with TP+ and the occasional bluff but mostly bet out the turn with stronger semibluffs, overcards and weaker made hands for value/protection. he would also c/r the river with his whiffed turn c/r hands.
quiz: what's my adjustment ?? (the hard part is gathering the information I just supplied, the application is easier) By adjustment I mean how do I play all the groups of hands in my range given this info.
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I know you said this thread was over, but I noticed the quiz wasn't answered.
Given the information, if I got to the turn, then I would have a polarised betting range when he checks to me (I don't really see much value in betting things that don't beat TP, seeing as when he C/R you have to fold considering his value range has you crushed and he's balanced here) To air and hands which beat TP. When he leads, it of would depend on how often he double barrels his missed draws and how thinly he value bets the river which would decide what I would do with most hands, but in general, I would raise with draws, with a view to betting the river most of the time, to get him off his weakish turn bet/calling range, and call with marginal hands, 2nd pair and whatnot, being more inclined to call if his river bluffing frequency was high. (of course this is assuming he isn't adapting very well himself)
And on the river, If employing this strategy, then my range when he checks to me (assuming i've checked back the turn) would be pretty much all marginal hands, and I would only bet to induce if I think his river C/R range in that spot would be too air heavy, otherwise I would check back and either beat his air or lose to his TP+
If I had called the turn, I would generally call the river, without reads on hsi barrelling frequencies.
Any good?
P.S. great thread.
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HarleyGuy13
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,226
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Could/would you give us a briefing on your play lately? The forums are abuzzz over how well you've been doing!
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"You start the game with a full pot o’ luck and an empty pot o’ experience...
The object is to fill the pot of experience before you empty the pot of luck."
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Do you have testicles? If so, learn to bet like it  |
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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I think the main "key point" that people are looking for, but will mainly overlook, is just how much study Sauce did/does than the rest of us. And not just tuning out while watching vids.
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Just playing to improve.
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EasyPoker
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 753
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Can someone link me to sauce's 2007 guide?
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WillburForce
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SW London
Posts: 516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyPoker
Can someone link me to sauce's 2007 guide?
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Just take a peek in the digest at the beginning of forum.
some quality stuff on there.
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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sauce please do a well
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,465
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he did one on leggopoker i believe a while back
def worth checking out
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,529
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this is totally a well, it's just a hyperturbo.
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