|
Carroters
|
03-11-2010, 04:48 PM
Post subject: AQo: Preflop spot vs CO fish.
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,217
|
|
Villain is 38/29 47% ATS over 50 hands. He's shipped over the only other time he's been 3 bet so far.
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
MP ($72.55)
CO ($32.85)
Button ($71.90)
SB ($20.75)
Hero (BB) ($56.60)
UTG ($53.25)
Preflop: Hero is BB with A , Q
2 folds, CO bets $1, 2 folds, Hero raises $3.75, CO raises $31.85 (All-In), Hero?
Analysis: Seems like I can 3 bet easily for value here since he'll probably continue with a ton of hands. I should have pretty good c bet success vs a weakish range and be able to stack worse TPs a fair amount when I hit - so good situation if he flats the 3-bet.
But he just ships. I don't see fish do this with AA/KK very often since they love to min 4 bet those hands. So, the most likely hands I think are AK TT-QQ maybe stuff like AJ AT KQ 88 etc sometimes too. I guess this is a sigh and fold because of how often we see AK here compared to the dubious stuff like AJ etc?
Hand 0: 39.224% 30.87% 08.35% 30130634 8152475.50 { AdQs }
Hand 1: 60.776% 52.42% 08.35% 51165743 8152475.50 { 99+, AJs+, KQs, AQo+ }
Does this range look reasonable given the info i have available?
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
surviva316
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
|
|
if this is the second time he's doing this in 50 hands, i expect to see more random stuff than you've put in the range. like KJ and AT and stuff. calling also allows you to play him more perfectly in the future, which i don't think is a tiny factor
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.  |
|
|
Vi-Zer0Skill
|
|
Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
|
|
calling in this spot is marginal at best. if it was the third time he's overbet shoved, or he was a 50/40 i'd call. i think you're gonna see AK/QQ at least one third of the time, and be flipping versus most of the rest of his range
|
|
|
|
BigLRIP
|
|
Straight
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BC
Posts: 194
|
|
meh call if he was deeper i'd fold
|
|
|
|
tstrout
|
|
3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 68
|
|
Easy fold. If he stinks as bad as you think he does, you'll get his money eventually in a much easier to play situation where you are sure to have him crushed. But I have difficulties with 3-betting AQo from the blinds in general. If the desire is to steal the tiny pre-flop pot, cool, but what happens when you get called and invariably whiff the flop OOP or get 4-bet? Seems like you are making your life harder than by just smooth calling. Besides, with a smooth call, your opponent will misjudge the times you hit the flop hard and stack off to you.
|
|
|
|
Ravageur
|
|
Official Montreal SwampRat
Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,242
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstrout
Easy fold. If he stinks as bad as you think he does, you'll get his money eventually in a much easier to play situation where you are sure to have him crushed. But I have difficulties with 3-betting AQo from the blinds in general. If the desire is to steal the tiny pre-flop pot, cool, but what happens when you get called and invariably whiff the flop OOP or get 4-bet? Seems like you are making your life harder than by just smooth calling. Besides, with a smooth call, your opponent will misjudge the times you hit the flop hard and stack off to you.
|
I think it's time to adress some things in your posts Tstrout. It's not personal but the posts themselves have been tilting me for a good while now.
First of all, improving at poker is not about always taking the line that is the 'easiest' and puts us in the least amount of tough spots. It's about taking the most optimal line every hand given the opponent. In your posting, I see you constantly trying to take the easiest/passive/get to showdown type line while missing out on tons of value in spots in order to minimize your losses. You also seem to be pretty results oriented (a lot of us are guilty of this).
In the hand in quesiton, 3-betting here is fkn standard vs this spewtard. We can get it in on a ton of flops and we're gonna outkick him tons and we're gonna take it down on a lot of airish flops as well as pf. So saying that calling here for deception is fine, but 3-betting is generally better. I also disagree about the whole 'we can find a better spot vs this fish later'. We have a good spot NOW. If this were super deep it'd be an entirely different situation and I would agree with you. All we have to do now is call his shove, take a note of what he 4-bet jammed with and reload and play on.
|
|
Family Cruise IMO
|
|
d0zer
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,529
|
|
60 deep ez call
|
|
|
|
baudib
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,233
|
|
If he's raising 29% and ships don't you think he's shipping all his pairs and big As? I'd expect to be ahead a lot and if he has QQ+/AK good for him. Discounting KK/AA, we're a slight favorite over top 10% (let's say roughly 55-QQ, AT+).
|
|
Playing big pots at small stakes.
|
|
Mr. Diamond
|
|
Straight
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: verified poker sponsor
Posts: 237
|
|
I would fold it against full stack, but he is short - so you must call
|
|
|
|
Luke999
|
|
Straight
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: England
Posts: 238
|
|
It probably is a call, I see fish do this all the time with any ace, 55+ and random k7ss etc. But folding is not bad either.
If he 4bet i'd happiy shove.
|
|
|
|
tstrout
|
|
3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 68
|
|
Ravageur,
Sorry to tilt you on a forum. Never done that before  You're right that I prefer to make easy decisions at the poker table over hard ones, but I am far from passive when I play. Some folks argue that AQo is a fold hand to a pre-flop raise; now that's passive if you ask me. I take a small ball approach with finesse to make money at the tables and understand the folks who prefer blunt force trauma like yourself. Playing OOP with a fit-or-fold hand like AQo forces WAY too much bluffing and air-based c-bets.
Ted
P.S. There seems to be confusion here about my playername online, some folks think I play as tstrout on some site. I do not; this is just a coincidence. I keep my username on pstars to myself to avoid giving away info that can be exploited. One thing I will tell you is that poker listings rates me as a shark. I prefer that over aggro-donking like most bombs do against me.
|
|
|
|
gabe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
|
|
"Playing OOP with a fit-or-fold hand like AQo forces WAY too much bluffing and air-based c-bets. "
no it doesnt. its profitable, so how can you make this argument? you are missing a BIG concept if you are avoiding profitable bluffs just because you have something against playing 'blunt trauma.'
|
|
|
|
gabe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
|
|
as for the hand i would call, and i like the 3 bet. he just has too many pairs and if he ever shows up with smaller Ax you get it in so good
|
|
|
|
Alexos
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravageur
I think it's time to adress some things in your posts Tstrout. It's not personal but the posts themselves have been tilting me for a good while now.
First of all, improving at poker is not about always taking the line that is the 'easiest' and puts us in the least amount of tough spots. It's about taking the most optimal line every hand given the opponent. In your posting, I see you constantly trying to take the easiest/passive/get to showdown type line while missing out on tons of value in spots in order to minimize your losses. You also seem to be pretty results oriented (a lot of us are guilty of this).
In the hand in quesiton, 3-betting here is fkn standard vs this spewtard. We can get it in on a ton of flops and we're gonna outkick him tons and we're gonna take it down on a lot of airish flops as well as pf. So saying that calling here for deception is fine, but 3-betting is generally better. I also disagree about the whole 'we can find a better spot vs this fish later'. We have a good spot NOW. If this were super deep it'd be an entirely different situation and I would agree with you. All we have to do now is call his shove, take a note of what he 4-bet jammed with and reload and play on.
|
this
|
|
Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
06-02-2012, 08:10 PM Merge Network 6.0 Looks to Retain Current Player Base
Linear Mode
