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yourfather
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12-19-2008, 03:49 AM
Post subject: AQo in 3 bet pot
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In your fridge
Posts: 603
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Only been at the table a few minutes. Villain squeezed two hands earlier after I called a raise and I folded.
I fold here preflop prob 8 in 10 times.
Is this ok or??
Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter
BTN: $59.55
SB: $33.35
BB: $20.10
UTG: $50
Hero (MP): $50
CO: $94
Pre-Flop: A Q dealt to Hero (MP)
UTG folds, Hero raises to $2, CO raises to $5, 3 folds, Hero calls $3
Flop: ($10.75) 9 T J (2 Players)
Hero checks, CO bets $11, Hero raises to $45 and is All-In,
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yes.
why would you fold that much?
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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why wudnt he fold UTG+1 with AQo usually???
as played flop is fine.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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i guess i'm used to FR but UTG+1 = HJ which is a late-ish position imo. So I'd say AQ is a good hand to be 4betting with pretty often.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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u would be wrong
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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BigPapi
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rotterdam, Holland
Posts: 437
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only if you think your opponent will call with worse and we have no reason to assume that yet after one squeeze play.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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I think flatting his small 3bet oop with AQo isn't horrible, but I'd prefer a stat or read on his 3bet frequency. As played I think the flop c/r is good. You're only realistically folding one hand in his range (AK) but you're behind that hand and you have too much equity vs. the rest of his range to fold.
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yourfather
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In your fridge
Posts: 603
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TwoSmeets
yes.
why would you fold that much?
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Basically others said it but AQo plays pretty bad oop in 3 bet pots vs relative unknowns.
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GatorJH
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: HotLanta
Posts: 3,179
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how big of a 3bet% are you looking for here to call and/or 4bet?
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Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by GatorJH
how big of a 3bet% are you looking for here to call and/or 4bet?
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im folding like 95% of the time if he 3bets to $7 and i'm never 4betting without a good reason to.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by GatorJH
how big of a 3bet% are you looking for here to call and/or 4bet?
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I'll flat AQo vs. 9%+ 3bettors... much preferred in position though. In this spot, hijack raise 3bet by the CO I'd almost never flat a normal-sized 3bet. I don't like 4betting with AQo much b/c it turns a good hand into a bluff and there are very few villains you're comfortable calling a 5bet shove against. But turning it into a bluff is ok vs. players 3betting say 5 or 6% and not getting it AI very light.
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i think if you aren't gonna call with it aq is one of the best hadns to turn into a bluff for blockers
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Hmm... I think I actually prefer a call here. Against most value 3-bet ranges you're not folding out a lot of hands. Would be surpried to even get 88 to fold.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TwoSmeets
i think if you aren't gonna call with it aq is one of the best hadns to turn into a bluff for blockers
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This isn't omaha, blockers are not relevant that often. Turning AQo into a bluff is a huge waste.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by meeloche
This isn't omaha, blockers are not relevant that often. Turning AQo into a bluff is a huge waste.
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If you're going to fold with it otherwise (as zook was advocating) then what exactly are you wasting by turning it into a bluff?
Blockers are not "irrelevant." The ace and queen blockers are always going to slightly increase your odds of getting him to fold preflop. However that effect is small enough that you're usually better off basing your decision to 4-bet bluff on gameflow factors than being like oh I have blockers Imma 4-bet.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
Quote:
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Originally Posted by meeloche
This isn't omaha, blockers are not relevant that often. Turning AQo into a bluff is a huge waste.
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If you're going to fold with it otherwise (as zook was advocating) then what exactly are you wasting by turning it into a bluff?
Blockers are not "irrelevant." The ace and queen blockers are always going to slightly increase your odds of getting him to fold preflop. However that effect is small enough that you're usually better off basing your decision to 4-bet bluff on gameflow factors than being like oh I have blockers Imma 4-bet. |
Yeah, I agree with all this. My last post was poorly written. With AQo oop I like calling vs. light 3bettors, I often like 4bet bluffing vs. moderate 3bettors (depending on my image and gameflow like mcat says) and I like folding vs. tighties. My other point was that even light 3bettors aren't choosing this spot (co vs. hijack) very often.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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meh you guys might be right. My disclaimer: Whenever I have AQ I'm never thinking of bluffing.
However this situation doesn't really come up a ton imo. Cause if somebody isn't 3 betting enough to make a call profitable then 4 betting probably isn't profitable either.
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