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Carroters
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11-19-2009, 01:09 AM
Post subject: AQ Isoing in the blinds vs active fish.
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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Villain is 46/26 fish over 40. His range for limping the button is probably pretty damn weak seeing as he loves to min raise preflop all the time in late position. The Iso, the flop and the turn I think are pretty standard.
So my question is do we b/f or c/f river? I feel like there's plenty two pairs in his range now given the way the board has run out and he probably doesn't call a 3rd barrel with less than top pair. Maybe c/f is better or block less than the $18 I bet here.
Thoughts?
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (BB) ($53.85)
UTG ($82.80)
MP ($50)
Button ($52.55)
SB ($50)
Preflop: Hero is BB with Q , A
2 folds, Button calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero bets $2, Button calls $2
Flop: ($5.25) 9 , 7 , A (2 players)
Hero bets $3.40, Button calls $3.40
Turn: ($12.05) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $8.40, Button calls $8.40
River: ($28.85) 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $18, Button raises $38.25 (All-In), Hero folds
Total pot: $64.85
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Villain has waay too many 8x in his range on this river, so I think this bet is too thin. Just c/f river, don't you have to worry about a fish bluffing you if you check here.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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speedcake
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 434
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how can you possibly think this player wont call 3 streets with a worse TP?
Edit: I guess you mean on this particular board.
The flop and turn bet sizing is bad, should be betting more to get as much value from the station as you can.
Even as played, bet/folding river with remaining stack sizes can't be too fun. River should be a trivial decision, this time it does look alot like he just sucked out on you. But you are losing shit tons of value all the times he does not when you size your bets this way.
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your banner burned here
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sniderstyle
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 12
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Preflop size should be 2.50, 3.00$ especially because you're out of position. With a high vpip fish, it could theorteically be more.
When we flop a big hand oop, we need to be betting close to pot on this flop. It's really hard to stack anyone if we don't bet big. That's one of the disadvantages of being out of position. That is why its so damn important to make it a bigger sized bet preflop.
As played, check/decide river. If he bets 10$ or less, Id probably find a hero call. IF he bets anymore than that fold.
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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river bet is too thin. Everything else is good though, just c/f the river.
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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@sniderstyle: I'm never check calling this river unless he bets like $3. I'd far rather b/f $10 than b/c $10 since he's checking worse aces behind and only betting better. I did rasie 5x, the hh has jus made it look otherwise at first glance.
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sniderstyle
Preflop size should be 2.50, 3.00$ especially because you're out of position. With a high vpip fish, it could theorteically be more.
When we flop a big hand oop, we need to be betting close to pot on this flop. It's really hard to stack anyone if we don't bet big. That's one of the disadvantages of being out of position. That is why its so damn important to make it a bigger sized bet preflop.
As played, check/decide river. If he bets 10$ or less, Id probably find a hero call. IF he bets anymore than that fold.
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The ideas you discuss here are what I would consider STRONG fundamental mistakes. The idea of "needing to bet big in order to stack someone" has to be at least 1.5 years out dated. Those days are long gone. Nowadays it's much more important to determine how to extract max value from your opponent's specific range, not to bet big in hopes that the hand you hold happens to be near the top of your range, and that the hand your opponent holds also happens to be near the top of his range, yet your hand beats his by a small amount.
This line of thinking is bad and will severely cut into your winrate long term.
Most of the times you flop top set on a very dry board it's very difficult to extract any value at all. Avoiding the type of thinking that "oh I have a big hand I need to bet big in case I cooler him" and moving more towards thinking "how can I get the majority of his range to put in the most money possible against my hand" is going to be the road that takes you to a nice and hefty payday.
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sniderstyle
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 12
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marshall28
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sniderstyle
Preflop size should be 2.50, 3.00$ especially because you're out of position. With a high vpip fish, it could theorteically be more.
When we flop a big hand oop, we need to be betting close to pot on this flop. It's really hard to stack anyone if we don't bet big. That's one of the disadvantages of being out of position. That is why its so damn important to make it a bigger sized bet preflop.
As played, check/decide river. If he bets 10$ or less, Id probably find a hero call. IF he bets anymore than that fold.
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The ideas you discuss here are what I would consider STRONG fundamental mistakes. The idea of "needing to bet big in order to stack someone" has to be at least 1.5 years out dated. Those days are long gone. Nowadays it's much more important to determine how to extract max value from your opponent's specific range, not to bet big in hopes that the hand you hold happens to be near the top of your range, and that the hand your opponent holds also happens to be near the top of his range, yet your hand beats his by a small amount.
This line of thinking is bad and will severely cut into your winrate long term.
Most of the times you flop top set on a very dry board it's very difficult to extract any value at all. Avoiding the type of thinking that "oh I have a big hand I need to bet big in case I cooler him" and moving more towards thinking "how can I get the majority of his range to put in the most money possible against my hand" is going to be the road that takes you to a nice and hefty payday. |
Depends on the board, This particular instance, he'll call with a ton of hands, thus a big bet is better.
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OP
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Iso'ing Iso's
Posts: 117
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sniderstyle
he'll call with a ton of hands
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While this may be true...take of all these "tons" of hands in his range that call us, divide them into a 2 categories....ones we beat....and ones that we don't beat. Which list is bigger?
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sniderstyle
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 12
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by OP
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sniderstyle
he'll call with a ton of hands
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While this may be true...take of all these "tons" of hands in his range that call us, divide them into a 2 categories....ones we beat....and ones that we don't beat. Which list is bigger? |
I'm talking about preflop, flop, and turn. I'd have bet larger on all three streets. River is a different story
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