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bode
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11-19-2007, 05:03 PM
Post subject: AQ 3bet pot
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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villain hasnt beeh out of line. Hes won a few med pots but hasnt shown a hand down yet.
im confused on whether c-betting or checking behind is best here. C-betting seems best in my mind because villain can bet the turn and i have to fold if i dont hit. And im not that thrilled about calling a turn bet if an A hits.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Hero ($77.70)
SB ($73.30)
BB ($9.25)
UTG ($34.50)
MP ($45.25)
Preflop: Hero is Button with A , Q .
1 fold, MP raises to $2, Hero raises to $6.5, 2 folds, MP calls $4.50.
Flop: ($13.75) J, 2, 9 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero ???
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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11-19-2007, 05:49 PM
Post subject: Re: AQ 3bet pot
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#2 (permalink)
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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Generally, with overcards and backdoor straight/flush draws i'd check behind just because i wouldn't want to get check/raised on the flop.
However, since your c-bet is likely to get more credit, as well as the fact that he is unlikely to be bluffing if he check/raises the flop, and because you can't really bluff on the turn/river versus an unknown, i like c-betting.
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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When in doubt, facing a guy you don't have good reads on, bet.
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cardsman1992
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
Posts: 1,065
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I cbet this 90% of the time.
If you don't like calling a turn bet when the A hits, why 3bet against a TAGGY opp who raises in EP in the first place?
Taking that logic, say you check behind and the A does hit the turn. You open yourself up to being bluffed off of the pot because he has to think you are cbetting that flop with most hands in standard 3 betting ranges (AQ+, JJ+), so he thinks an A is a perfect card to donk into you with.
Of course if you cbet and get called, that's where I give credit and slow down....
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Operation Grind For Education:
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cardsman1992
If you don't like calling a turn bet when the A hits, why 3bet against a TAGGY opp who raises in EP in the first place?
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because he is raising a PP, KQs, etc enough and i take it down pre.
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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I'd bet/fold $9.. but I wouldn't 3bet AQo at this level most of the time..
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
I'd bet/fold $9.. but I wouldn't 3bet AQo at this level most of the time..
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that doesnt sound right... why not?
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EzDuzIt
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
I'd bet/fold $9.. but I wouldn't 3bet AQo at this level most of the time..
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that doesnt sound right... why not? |
because hes not advocating 3-betting AQ? AQ is a standard 3-bet for me because the standard villain at this level either calls way too much because he "already has money invested" or folds way too much. Ive been playing AQ in a 3bet pot much more cautiously lately because i was stacking off to AK too much. But to not 3bet it is leaving money on the table because we take the pot down preflop so much.
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Galapogos
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11-20-2007, 12:30 AM
Post subject: Re: AQ 3bet pot
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#9 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
villain hasnt beeh out of line.
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C-bet here always.
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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Galapogos
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11-20-2007, 12:31 AM
Post subject: Re: AQ 3bet pot
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#10 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
Generally, with overcards and backdoor straight/flush draws i'd check behind just because i wouldn't want to get check/raised on the flop.
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You're not going to get a cheap enough turn to hit an unlikely backdoor draw if he wants to c/r you on the flop.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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you have to bet here, this is one of the features of 3betting, greater fold equity on flops.
but at this level (Even up to 200 at times) the sad thing is that a lot of people love to slowplay KK/AA and would never 4bet queens
if he calls and your miss turn, id check turn.
if villain is a station with garbage like kj, I 3bet with unpaired hands less and 3bet wider with like 99+
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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11-20-2007, 05:40 AM
Post subject: Re: AQ 3bet pot
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#12 (permalink)
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
Generally, with overcards and backdoor straight/flush draws i'd check behind just because i wouldn't want to get check/raised on the flop.
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You're not going to get a cheap enough turn to hit an unlikely backdoor draw if he wants to c/r you on the flop. |
i don't think he only leads the turn with hands he wanted to check/raise the flop with. I'd advocate raising/shoving over a turn lead if we pick up a flush draw/straight draw + overcards, not calling.
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Yeah cbet, you get called by draws you beat and you fold mid pairs.
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Galapogos
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11-20-2007, 04:23 PM
Post subject: Re: AQ 3bet pot
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#14 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
Generally, with overcards and backdoor straight/flush draws i'd check behind just because i wouldn't want to get check/raised on the flop.
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You're not going to get a cheap enough turn to hit an unlikely backdoor draw if he wants to c/r you on the flop. |
i don't think he only leads the turn with hands he wanted to check/raise the flop with. I'd advocate raising/shoving over a turn lead if we pick up a flush draw/straight draw + overcards, not calling. |
What about the vast majority of times the turn gives you no hope?
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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11-20-2007, 08:33 PM
Post subject: Re: AQ 3bet pot
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#15 (permalink)
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
What about the vast majority of times the turn gives you no hope?
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if bet into, id fold
if checked to, id probably bet unless my opponent has been passive with strong hands in spots like this before. and if called, id bet/shove the river a lot of the time.
slowplaying a flopped set or A-A on the flop here sometimes is good so you have the option to bluff on later streets against good players.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
because hes not advocating 3-betting AQ? AQ is a standard 3-bet for me because the standard villain at this level either calls way too much because he "already has money invested" or folds way too much. Ive been playing AQ in a 3bet pot much more cautiously lately because i was stacking off to AK too much. But to not 3bet it is leaving money on the table because we take the pot down preflop so much.
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It's a fine play ofcourse, but you don't have to. It's good enough to 3bet tight (like AA-KK always, AK/JJ/TT sometimes) to beat up to 100NL. (after that I dunno) Ofcourse that's with the opposition I always had, who don't raise often to begin with. And you adjust to specific opponents.. if someone's getting out of line raising constantly, I'll 3bet KQo.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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i d bet-fold the flop (yawn)
if he calls the flop I'd 2-barrel any A K Q or T
if, however, one of those cards falls on turn and he leads into you, I'd just pitch it
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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ilovemypuppy
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
Quote:
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Originally Posted by EzDuzIt
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
I'd bet/fold $9.. but I wouldn't 3bet AQo at this level most of the time..
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that doesnt sound right... why not? |
because hes not advocating 3-betting AQ? AQ is a standard 3-bet for me because the standard villain at this level either calls way too much because he "already has money invested" or folds way too much. Ive been playing AQ in a 3bet pot much more cautiously lately because i was stacking off to AK too much. But to not 3bet it is leaving money on the table because we take the pot down preflop so much. |
I hate that reasoning to 3-bet because "we take it down preflop". We have position, and we fold out almost all worse hands than AQ that he's raising. He's not calling 3-bets too lightly (AJ and less), so we either win a small pot when we hit our TP or we lose a big pot when he hits a set or when he has AK.
If you're all excited about taking down 4bb, 3-bet with hands that don't play well on the flop (J2o, 94o.. just complete trash). AQ has a bunch of equity against his raising range, but that equity gets cut greatly when we 3-bet because his 3-bet calling range is a lot narrower than his raising range.
As played, c-bet ~8-9 and fold to a shove. If you're not c-betting here when you have overcards and backdoor draws, you probably shouldn't be 3-betting it. This sounds not smart, but when you only c-bet here with JJ+, he can take the pot away when we have overcards, but fold when we bet.
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