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Genitruc
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12-03-2007, 07:00 AM
Post subject: Another River Shove
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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No Hud for tonight's session. Villain seems taggy and has been playing his big hands extremely fast (CR flops, bet-3betting big draws etc) and seems pretty good. He may think I'm a bit weird as I check-called AK high on JT28J board on river for a pretty big pot vs a donk cpl orbits ago (AK was good; not sure how/if that changes his perception of my range for this hand).
$200 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, December 03, 01:19:00 ET 2007
Table Table 133381 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 4: msakmsak ( $453.49 USD )
Seat 5: NTTNE ( $182 USD )
Seat 6: HERO ( $261.50 USD )
Seat 1: soont9 ( $187 USD )
Seat 3: Vollkaufmann ( $200 USD )
soont9 posts small blind [$1 USD].
Vollkaufmann is sitting out
msakmsak posts big blind [$2 USD].
Vollkaufmann has left the table.
NTTNE is sitting out
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO  
HERO raises [$7 USD]
soont9 folds.
msakmsak calls [$5 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** (15$)   
msakmsak checks.
HERO bets [$12 USD]
msakmsak calls [$12 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** (40$) 
msakmsak checks.
HERO bets [$28 USD]
msakmsak calls [$28 USD]
** Dealing River ** (95ish$) 
msakmsak bets [$64 USD]
HERO is all-In. (150$ to call into 370)
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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I think it's great if he can fold A-10
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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I think this is good if he can fold KQ, but wouldn't be surprised to get shown KJ here sometimes.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Yea, I think you're getting shown KJ a lot here.
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bair
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 953
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you look like you have AQ. i think hes folding a ton here, except for KJ, which he definitely has sometimes.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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I like it. I think he folds all of his range except KJ and the odd AQ he doesn't 3-bet.
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silu73
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,009
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I don't mind it all at all if its done sparingly. I think KJ, AQ, J9 & even 22 are a possibility but if he can fold his pair of Q's then its good.
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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seems ok, he should fold AT (? if he actually does) and not have AQ, only thing is if he somehow slowplayed KJ on the flop, i doubt he folded for the $28 - seems sorta small to me - maybe for $34 or so.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Don't bet the turn, he's calling way too much of his range and you have no outs.
I probably fold the river since i don't see him folding two pair and i don't think he leads Qx on the river.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I don't get why we are pushing into such a strong range...
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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i think the turn is ok if you plan on betting the river to fold JT/QJ type hands...but yea, his river leading range is pretty strong..but might fold <AQ..but not sure he does.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by benny999
i think the turn is ok if you plan on betting the river to fold JT/QJ type hands
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With no draw this almost always is a shitty line.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I don't get why we are pushing into such a strong range...
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metagame!
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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I think a straight's unlikely because he probably wouldn't take such a weak line. Genitrucs says the guy's playing strong draws fast, I assume he means OE straight draws are included.
I think Vi-Zero's right, he has to be able to fold AT here for this to be a good idea.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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ACE BALL
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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This seems pretty god damn horrible. I guess your thinking is that he either fastplays KJ on flop or goes for a c/r on river the majority of the time he's got it. However, the shove still seems very spewy versus such a strong lead and you should probably give up after getting called on the flop- maybe a fake valuetown on river would be good if it had gotten checked all the way down.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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I don't get it. You raised preflop with garbage, then managed to get all-in after the flop with no pair and no draw facing strength. Looks pretty god-awful to me.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Hero's cards don't matter in this hand.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
Don't bet the turn, he's calling way too much of his range and you have no outs.
I probably fold the river since i don't see him folding two pair and i don't think he leads Qx on the river.
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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Question 1) if I was villain in this hand and called the shove with AT how'd I do?
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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Question 2) if I was villain and folded AT to the river shove and was shown 46o, should I jump off a bridge?
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
Hero's cards don't matter in this hand.
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If you're getting called a lot of the time, your cards matter.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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Regardless of whether I was hero or villain in this hand, I'd say hero's cards matter somewhat on the flop, quite a bit on the turn and not at all on the river if we're considering a bluff
but whatever it s just an argument over semantics
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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