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All-in with KK?

  
 
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nutpeddler
Old 05-27-2004, 06:57 PM     Post subject: All-in with KK? #1 (permalink)  

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nutpeddler
First let me say that I've been reading through all of the posts on this site and there is an amazing amount of information in here. What a great a forum! Thanks to everyone who has contributed.

I play NL ring games and I am wondering what you guys think about something:

When you hold KK and someone goes all in ahead of you or there is a preflop raising war, should you always go all-in?

I know KK is a really great hand, but the last 5 times I have had KK and pushed all-in preflop, I have lost.

Twice to AA.
Once to 86s - got flush.
Once to AK - caught wheel straight.
Once to AQs - caught ace *and* queen.

Are these beats just a run of bad luck?

I am losing confidence in KK.
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DrNoChance
Old 05-27-2004, 07:35 PM #2 (permalink)  
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DrNoChance
They were all basically bad luck beats except the loss to the AA. We all go through slumps of getting strong hands cracked. I can't remember the last time freakin' AK made me any money .

Laying down KK before the flop to someone with AA is VERY hard to do. A lot of people just can't do it, period. Many people just accept that occassionnally when you play with KK aggressively before the flop you will run into AA, and that's just poker.

That being said, I think there is a time and place to throw away KK before the flop (but I've never had the willpower to do it). If you see a tight player make a big raise, and then get reraised, and then ANOTHER tight guy gos all-in after that....it might be worth dropping the KK. It's very hard to do, but I know of one guy who did it TWICE in the same tourney and was right both times (he was up against AA both times).

You have to have a bit of sense after the flop when it comes to KK also....if an A comes on the flop you have to realize that AK/AQ have you beat now and be ready to fold if they come at you hard.


If you don't think you're up against AA though, I'm willing to bet my whole stack every time with KK before the flop. They may beat you some of the time, but you'll make money with this hand in the long run. On a side note, I've had great luck with KK lately (watch me jinx it right there ). QQ and AK is another story though.....
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fishstick
Old 05-27-2004, 07:36 PM #3 (permalink)  
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fishstick
the ever popular poker answer: it depends - but i'd say mostly.

- who went all in? if it was the table rock who's played 3 hands in the last hour, i'd be inclined to put them on AA or KK - a bit of a coin toss.

- is it the table bozo that you've seen previously go all in with borderline junk (86s)?

- how many people (and what type of players are they) have called the all in before you? KK is great, but is not as great with 5 people seeing the flop.

i forget who it is that talks in terms of "perfect" poker being defined as playing the same way you would if you knew what the other guy had (sklansky? theory of poker?), but with that in mind, i would not go all in against AA (duh! ), and would against anything else. the odds are on your side, so you should get paid over the long term. but your position and number of players already in the pot should be kept in mind.

the cowboys aren't working to well for you - for me it's the ladies (bimbos in my mind ). with cowboys, i've cracked AA 3 times by catching another K, usually on the river.

good cards!
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Toasty
Old 05-27-2004, 08:13 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Toasty
If you never fold KK PF to a raise in ring games you will probably never be making a mistake¹

It's the second best starting hand in the game 1v1 hot and cold.




1 - Obviously if mr.tight who hasn't played for the last 3 orbits decides to push all in, you could give him credit for aces and tournements are diff, its situational.
Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
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AvatarKava
Old 05-28-2004, 09:09 PM #5 (permalink)  
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AvatarKava
Just lost $90 to the one who's been bluffing all game.

He's UTG (I'm on button) and puts in a small raise, everyone else folds. I reraise, he reraises all in.

Have I mentioned how much I hate NL ring games because of these situations?
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AvatarKava
Old 05-28-2004, 10:36 PM #6 (permalink)  
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AvatarKava
Wow, twice in a 10-hand span now, same deal as above.

This hurts.
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johnnyawe
Old 05-28-2004, 11:34 PM #7 (permalink)  
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johnnyawe
For KK in a ring game..

If there is a pre-flop raising war and no one is all-in yet: I'm all-in.

If one person is all-in ahead of me pre-flop: I'm all-in.

If two solid players are all-in ahead of me pre-flop, I will strongly consider folding.
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