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AK is my most favoritest hand in whole wide world!

  
 
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 07-24-2007, 03:19 AM     Post subject: AK is my most favoritest hand in whole wide world! #1 (permalink)  
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villain is TAGish, we haven't tangled.

Prima Poker skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players

Hero has $95.30
Villain has $88.95

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with
Hero raises to $3.5, 3 folds, BB raises to $11, Hero raises to $35.5, BB calls.

Flop: ($71.5, 2 players)
BB checks, WTF DO I DO!?!?!??!
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I Like Pie
Old 07-24-2007, 03:25 AM #2 (permalink)  
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What are the stack sizes?
I bet here most of the time anyways.
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phantom_lord
Old 07-24-2007, 03:32 AM #3 (permalink)  
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give up.
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 07-24-2007, 03:38 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Like Pie
What are the stack sizes?
I bet here most of the time anyways.
my bad, 89bb effective
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bigspenda73
Old 07-24-2007, 03:48 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 I don't get your 4bet PF.

You open UTG and the blinds 3bet you. You're going to be in position the rest of the way, I really don't understand the 4bet.

As played don't you have to shove here?
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 07-24-2007, 03:53 AM #6 (permalink)  
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gawd why does my AK suck so bad. my winrate would be +3ptbb/100 if i just fold all my AK hands.
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I Like Pie
Old 07-24-2007, 03:54 AM #7 (permalink)  
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He's only got just over $50 left and the pot is $71. I probably just put him all-in then get pissed after he instacalls with his flopped boat.
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overflow
Old 07-24-2007, 04:33 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Mine too.

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $31.70
Button: $12.78
SB: $14.80
BB: $4

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is UTG with A A
Hero raises to $0.4, Button calls, SB calls, BB raises to $0.8, Hero raises all-in $31.7, Button folds, SB calls all-in $14.4, BB calls all-in $3.2.
Uncalled bets: $16.9 returned to Hero.

Flop: 9 9 5 ($5.2, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: $12.4, Sidepot 1: $18)


Turn: 5 ($5.2, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: $12.4, Sidepot 1: $18)


River: 5 ($5.2, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: $12.4, Sidepot 1: $18)


Results:
Final pot: $5.2
Hero Shows Ac As
SB Shows Ah Kh
BB Shows Kd Ad

Ship It, Holla!
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Fnord
Old 07-24-2007, 05:29 AM     Post subject: Re: AK is my most favoritest hand in whole wide world! #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
villain is TAGish
I wouldn't 3-bet if he's tight and straight forward.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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minSim
Old 07-24-2007, 07:05 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Could anyone elaborate the calling in position play with AK.
I've seen people even advocate calling a single raise with them in position preflop. I don't get that, isn't the goal with this hand getting as much in preflop and because it's still a not made hand, we want initiative to (semi)bluff postflop?

I can see why calling a 3-bet from a tight villain would be good; we're behind of his range and probably can't make him fold his better hand.
But does the mere fact that we are able to check behind a missed flop in position make this a call in position and a 4-bet OOP?
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 07-24-2007, 12:14 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minSim
Could anyone elaborate the calling in position play with AK.
I've seen people even advocate calling a single raise with them in position preflop. I don't get that, isn't the goal with this hand getting as much in preflop and because it's still a not made hand, we want initiative to (semi)bluff postflop?

I can see why calling a 3-bet from a tight villain would be good; we're behind of his range and probably can't make him fold his better hand.
But does the mere fact that we are able to check behind a missed flop in position make this a call in position and a 4-bet OOP?
calling in position won't put you in spewtastic situations like the hand i posted. it also means you'll need to fold to a lot of cbets.
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minSim
Old 07-24-2007, 01:19 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
Quote:
Originally Posted by minSim
Could anyone elaborate the calling in position play with AK.
I've seen people even advocate calling a single raise with them in position preflop. I don't get that, isn't the goal with this hand getting as much in preflop and because it's still a not made hand, we want initiative to (semi)bluff postflop?

I can see why calling a 3-bet from a tight villain would be good; we're behind of his range and probably can't make him fold his better hand.
But does the mere fact that we are able to check behind a missed flop in position make this a call in position and a 4-bet OOP?
calling in position won't put you in spewtastic situations like the hand i posted. it also means you'll need to fold to a lot of cbets.
Against a tight 3-better I can see why calling is better then 4-betting; you're behind his range and he isn't folding anything.
But does position really matter here?

It's more or less way ahead/way behind on the flop because you have TPTK , or you have nothing. Assuming villain does some c-betting in and out of position, it really doesn't matter a lot.
When you miss, you're out. When you hit, you c/c flop or c/r flop OOP and call or raise IP. You're getting the same value in and out of position.
Compare it to set hunting.


When calling single raises; does getting a lot more value from AT+ really make up for the pros of 3-betting?
Those being;
1) the amount you win by simply taking pots down preflop
2) being the aggressor and being able to take down the flop by a c-bet

And what about the times you flop TPTK, but get outflopped or drawn by a hand that would have folded preflop to a 3-bet?

I really doubt youre seeing AT+ versus your AK often enough tbh.
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bigspenda73
Old 07-24-2007, 01:20 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 I like calling the 3bet here and shoving over cbets because:

A. He can have AK too
B. You'd take the same line with QQ/KK/AA

Therefore you're balanced, you have 6 outs if called, and I dunno, it's just what I would do.
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 07-24-2007, 02:02 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
I like calling the 3bet here and shoving over cbets because:

A. He can have AK too
B. You'd take the same line with QQ/KK/AA

Therefore you're balanced, you have 6 outs if called, and I dunno, it's just what I would do.
AA/KK/QQ can also 4bet + push the flop.
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Warpe
Old 07-24-2007, 02:23 PM     Post subject: Re: AK is my most favoritest hand in whole wide world! #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
villain is TAGish
If villain's 3-bet range is tight, I don't like 4-betting pre here.



 
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overflow
Old 07-24-2007, 05:07 PM #16 (permalink)  
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What's villain's 3bet range have to be to ever even consider 4betting AK? Greater than 6-7% I would imagine, and i doubt many players at lower stakes are 3betting much wider than that, unless they are regs that understand the value of doing it.
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bigspenda73
Old 07-24-2007, 06:06 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
I like calling the 3bet here and shoving over cbets because:

A. He can have AK too
B. You'd take the same line with QQ/KK/AA

Therefore you're balanced, you have 6 outs if called, and I dunno, it's just what I would do.
AA/KK/QQ can also 4bet + push the flop.
AA/KK doesn't 4bet anymore
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sauce123
Old 07-24-2007, 06:11 PM #18 (permalink)  
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villain is just retarded
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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bigspenda73
Old 07-24-2007, 06:16 PM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
villain is just retarded

what makes him retarded?
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mixchange
Old 07-24-2007, 06:18 PM #20 (permalink)  
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Don't 4bet ak. As played just push all in and pray he has JJ and is freaked out.
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sauce123
Old 07-24-2007, 06:52 PM #21 (permalink)  
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if villain has AA, KK he can shove preflop and ur odds are too good for you to fold

if villain has QQ and thinks hes ahead enough, he can shove preflop and ur odds r too good for you to fold

if villain has JJ and thinks hes ahead enough, he can shove preflop and ur odds r too good for you to fold

if villain has TT and thinks hes ahead enough, he can shove preflop and ur odds r too good for you to fold

if villain has AQ and thinks hes ahead enough, he can shove preflop and ur odds r too good for you to fold

if villain has anything else and thinks hes ahead enough, he can shove preflop and ur odds r too good for you to fold

if villain does not have one of these hands he should fold preflop

that is why villain is retarded
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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Lukie
Old 07-24-2007, 07:20 PM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixchange
Don't 4bet ak. As played just push all in and pray he has JJ and is freaked out.
don't 4-bet ak? ever? what?
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mixchange
Old 07-25-2007, 01:25 AM #23 (permalink)  
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Sorry, I should have been more descriptive lukie

it sounds like he didn't 4bet it with a plan. he's usually missing here and it doesn't sound like he knows what to do, so why 4bet it?

didnt mean never 4bet ak, sorry
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 07-25-2007, 01:34 AM #24 (permalink)  
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my plan was to price myself to call a preflop shove while at the same time taking advantage of whatever fold equity i have.
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Lukie
Old 07-25-2007, 06:39 AM #25 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixchange
Sorry, I should have been more descriptive lukie

it sounds like he didn't 4bet it with a plan. he's usually missing here and it doesn't sound like he knows what to do, so why 4bet it?

didnt mean never 4bet ak, sorry
i don't really like it either in this spot given position and stack sizes, but many players (myself included) 4-bet AK a lot either via shove or an amount less than a shove and have good success with it. Obviously it isn't very smart against the type of player that 3-bets JJ+/AK and folds none of them.
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mixchange
Old 07-25-2007, 08:54 AM #26 (permalink)  
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If I 4 bet AK, it's a shove and usually against someone 60BB or less as they tend to play supertight (might fold a better hand like JJ) or super loose and call with AQ AJ

against 100bb player I don't like 4betting AK much.
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