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Harry
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09-01-2006, 01:07 AM
Post subject: AK - Big stack battle
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 722
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Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
5 players
Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $22.90
CO: $63.94
Hero: $53.05
SB: $22
BB: $7.95
Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with A K
UTG folds, CO raises to $0.5, Hero raises to $1.8, 2 folds, CO calls.
Flop: 3 A T ($3.95, 2 players)
CO bets $3, Hero raises to $9, CO calls.
Turn: 9 ($21.95, 2 players)
CO bets $2, Hero raises to $10, CO calls.
River: J ($41.95, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $15, CO folds.
Uncalled bets: $15 returned to Hero.
Results:
Final pot: $41.95
I'm so used to limit, commiting so much of my money on TPTK is tough thing for me to do, even though I feel its the right play. I'm guessing I'm supposed to raise more on the turn?
Any tips on become comfortable with betting relatively large amounts of money on one hand? It's not about my BR, I'm over rolled for 25NL. I think I just need to become desensitized to the nominal value of my chips.
Btw, this hand and another where I didn't let this player see showdown ended up tilting him, and I won the rest of his stack when I turned the nut straight with the nut flush draw. 4 buy-ins at this table =)
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dan
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 288
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raise more preflop - at least $2 - especially that you are both deep and you have position on him.
flop is fine
turn raise it up, i make it 20.
river is fine.
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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Villain's small donk on the turn typically is a draw or weak hand. The pot is 26 after you call the $2, so if it's a draw, you gave him odds to call with an $8 raise. If he was trapping, you can still fold to a 3bet push after raising to around 20 like dan suggested.
I always liked the ability size bets like that to protect and get extra value from made hands in no limit. Getting more experience is prob all you need to be comfortable making larger raises when you think you're ahead. You must be used to thinking of the "long term" from limit, it's just the same in no limit...just think of raises as # of BB's and bets as fractions of the pot.
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samsonite2100
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Your loosing, lolololololololololol
Posts: 858
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Pf is fine. Flop I'd bet $10. Yes, turn raise to ~$20--those donk bets mean someone's trying to price themselves cheaply for their draw, in my experience.
One suggestion I have for changing your thinking about betting alot on marginal hands is to ask yourself, "do I have any reason to not think I'm ahead here?" In this hand, although it's uncomfortable to put so much $$ on TPTK, villain is giving you no reason whatsoever to think you're not ahead.
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Robert
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kokkedal, Denmark
Posts: 1,109
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Bet more on the turn, $20 is to much though. The rest if fine.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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I play in the same, except I check behind the river unless I'm pretty sure he wouldn't play a better hand like this and know how to respond to a river c/r.
There are a bunch of things you're trying to balance on the turn. I like $10.
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samsonite2100
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Your loosing, lolololololololololol
Posts: 858
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
I play in the same, except I check behind the river unless I'm pretty sure he wouldn't play a better hand like this and know how to respond to a river c/r.
There are a bunch of things you're trying to balance on the turn. I like $10.
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$10 on the turn with three different obvious draws seems bad to me. If this isn't a "deny drawing odds" spot, I don't know what is.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by samsonite2100
$10 on the turn with three different obvious draws seems bad to me. If this isn't a "deny drawing odds" spot, I don't know what is.
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You also need to balance this against pot-fucking yourself if you need to lay it down and blowing worse hands out of the pot.
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samsonite2100
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Your loosing, lolololololololololol
Posts: 858
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by samsonite2100
$10 on the turn with three different obvious draws seems bad to me. If this isn't a "deny drawing odds" spot, I don't know what is.
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You also need to balance this against pot-fucking yourself if you need to lay it down and blowing worse hands out of the pot. |
I don't think we mind blowing worse (i.e. drawing) hands out of the pot here. Villain is taking a drawing hand line with two flush draws and a broadway and wheel straight draw on the board. IMO, Hero got lucky that villain didn't draw out w/ the juicy pot odds offered.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by samsonite2100
IMO, Hero got lucky that villain didn't draw out w/ the juicy pot odds offered.
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So what you're saying then is that it's impossible to win at limit hold'em without being really lucky since any draw just about always has pot odds?
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samsonite2100
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Your loosing, lolololololololololol
Posts: 858
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by samsonite2100
IMO, Hero got lucky that villain didn't draw out w/ the juicy pot odds offered.
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So what you're saying then is that it's impossible to win at limit hold'em without being really lucky since any draw just about always has pot odds? |
Fnord, I don't know enough about limit to argue about this hand in those terms. I'm guessing the answer is that lifetime value in limit comes from correctly playing made vs. made/made vs. bluffing hands and not made vs. drawing hands, but I could be totally wrong. I do know that in this hand, hero laid premium odds for any draw hand villain might have on an obviously draw-y board.
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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Yea, I guess 15-16 (1/2 pot size raise) is better for the turn.
I think with these stacks you can still lay down after raising 15-20 on the turn if villain pushes. imo you can get more value from draws and sometimes even weaker hands if you raise against draw odds and don't call a huge bet after the draw hits or villain reveals his trap.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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I like 15 turn, check river.
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