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AnTman_69
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03-10-2009, 07:42 AM
Post subject: AK against nit 100nl.
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 463
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vill is tight. 15/14/3 tight nit.
I dont think i've ever been in this type of situation b4. His utg range is obv very tight and his range for doubling this turn would be somethink like AA AK TT 88 and KQ...maybbbbbbe KJ but i doubt it. Given my range...Easy turn fold?
$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG hanskarl ($100.50)
UTG+1 Shamal-G ($132.10)
CO Hero ($102.70)
BTN EamonnH ($111.25)
SB john808080 ($100.00)
BB jaeger1964 ($29.20)
Pre-flop: ($1.50, 6 players) Hero is CO  
hanskarl raises to $3.50, Shamal-G calls $3.50, Hero calls $3.50, 2 folds, jaeger1964 calls $2.50
Flop:    ($14.50, 4 players)
jaeger1964 checks, hanskarl bets $10, 1 fold, Hero calls $10, jaeger1964 folds
Turn:  ($34.50, 2 players)
hanskarl bets $24.50, Hero..
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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call.
I'm kind of a laggtard so playing this passively means I'll never ever be in this situation, but as played, call. I'd raise... everywhere.
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AnTman_69
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 463
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but but...hes a uber tight. Does this not affect your decision in anyway?
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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Preflop, do you have positional stats on him? If he doesn't abuse position, he's still got a range that AK beats and it's worth an iso raise. 15/14/3 is not uber tight. Given that we see the flop 4 handed I'm not happy about tptk but I'm not folding it, so I act like I'll get it all in. If someone flats a raise on the flop I'm worried, but at least I'm playing HU rather than against 3 players. Given the action I think we're chopping a lot, but I'd rather define my hand a bit with a bet and find out, the earlier the better.
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Muzzard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
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He would probably open KQ UTG, so your ahead of KQ and chopping AK and pretty much behind everything that I think he would double barrel here. KK/AA/TT/88
9 combinations of AK
9 combinations of KQ
1 combination of KK
6 combinations of AA
3 combinations of TT
3 combinations of 88
So you're ahead of 9, chopping with 9 and behind 13. Tough. You got the heard draw too ldo. I certainly would not raise turn.
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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raising flop = bad
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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I really dislike your overcall w/ AK, I realize he's super nit, but you are just encouraging a multi way pot and you're going to be put in retarded situations like this a lot. I'd just put the squeeze on, hope UTG folds and the other dude overcalls.
As played I'd just toss it on the turn, there's no way a 15/13 is barreling this turn after leading the flop into 4 people with a worse hand (and it's even less suspect he's bluffing). At best you're chopping.
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XTR1000
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
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With two kings already out there are only six combos of KQo and two of KQs, same with KJ. Your hand removes some if not most of his possible non-pair heart draws, so folding turn seems fine. If not, I certainly c/f river.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
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yo
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AnTman_69
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 463
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marshall28
I really dislike your overcall w/ AK, I realize he's super nit, but you are just encouraging a multi way pot and you're going to be put in retarded situations like this a lot. I'd just put the squeeze on, hope UTG folds and the other dude overcalls.
As played I'd just toss it on the turn, there's no way a 15/13 is barreling this turn after leading the flop into 4 people with a worse hand (and it's even less suspect he's bluffing). At best you're chopping.
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If i squeeze here and get 4 bet by utg..it just puts me in a gay spot, then people would say, "Whhhy 3 bet and utg raiser if u don't intend to stick it in " lolzz. But yes i understand your point and agree that squeezing here makes the hand easier to play, post.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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If he's tripling KQ+, we're ahead of 8 and behind 13 combo's. That's 38% odds we need on that.
Chops are +EV because there's dead money.
We have 2 outs against AA.
With a full pot bet we need 33% equity to be 0 EV, bet's are under pot.
So all in all this should a pretty clear calldown assuming KQ stacks of?
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jimmy44
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Place where I can spew
Posts: 1,391
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AnTman_69
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marshall28
I really dislike your overcall w/ AK, I realize he's super nit, but you are just encouraging a multi way pot and you're going to be put in retarded situations like this a lot. I'd just put the squeeze on, hope UTG folds and the other dude overcalls.
As played I'd just toss it on the turn, there's no way a 15/13 is barreling this turn after leading the flop into 4 people with a worse hand (and it's even less suspect he's bluffing). At best you're chopping.
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If i squeeze here and get 4 bet by utg..it just puts me in a gay spot, then people would say, "Whhhy 3 bet and utg raiser if u don't intend to stick it in " lolzz. But yes i understand your point and agree that squeezing here makes the hand easier to play, post. |
Folding AK here vs a UTG nit 4bet would OK.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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I'd certainly call if there wasn't the initial coldcaller, probably never 3bet this guys UTG opens ever if I'm in the CO/BTN and the blinds are tightish.
As played I either call and snap-fold to a river bet or just take the nitty line, realize he's probably pot-controlling KQ/JJ/QQ along the way, and fold the turn. The fact that he can't be barreling AhXh is somewhat important as well.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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A squeeze pre isn't bad at all as it would make him fold 77-99 type hands if he's nitty. He's not opening many Ax so the argument for calling and keep those dominated hands in is less valuable... Also, these tighter guys don't have a huge position game, as in they'll open probably 11-12% UTG which is still a range you dominate plusss you're essentially semi-bluffing vs his midpairs.
As played I'd flat turn and river could go either way..
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WildBobAA
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
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If he's a 15/14, his UTG opening range is 22+, KJ+, AT+, it's not nearly as tight as I think you think it is. I would just squeeze PF.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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how can you assume that's hit UTG range?
I could play 15/14 and my UTG range could be like TT+,AK
putting KJ and AT in a nits UTG range seems like a stretch (heck KQ and AJ seem like a stretch, as do 22-66)
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,322
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I actually like the line you took and I fold the turn.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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WildBobAA
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: lol i dunno
Posts: 1,811
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
how can you assume that's hit UTG range?
I could play 15/14 and my UTG range could be like TT+,AK
putting KJ and AT in a nits UTG range seems like a stretch (heck KQ and AJ seem like a stretch, as do 22-66)
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b/c I'm a nit and that's about my utg range. and your second statement is true but he would really have to be opening quite a bit from CO and button which seems weird if he's that tigt UTG
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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If you are a 15/14 and open KJ or AT UTG you must not be playing very positionally. I think people are better off ditching 22-66, AT, KJ and AJo UTG then upping your steal to 30%+. Personal preference thing, but you'll get stuck in fewer tough spots.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Playing AJ+/22+ from UTG and not opening 30+ from button, not 3betting light and playing very tight from the blinds probably ends up in having a PFR of 14.
As Alexos mentioned as well, most nits don't have a very positionally adjusted game. They just play a very tight range.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by WildBobAA
If he's a 15/14, his UTG opening range is 22+, KJ+, AT+, it's not nearly as tight as I think you think it is. I would just squeeze PF.
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WHAT????!!! I am like 29/24 and significantly tighter than that utg
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WildBobAA
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: lol i dunno
Posts: 1,811
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Ok well, that's why you're playing 1mirrionNL and I suck.
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
how can you assume that's hit UTG range?
I could play 15/14 and my UTG range could be like TT+,AK
putting KJ and AT in a nits UTG range seems like a stretch (heck KQ and AJ seem like a stretch, as do 22-66)
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<agree>
I am following sauce's guide and am running 15/10 currently.. my UTG opening range is 22+, AQs+
I think you have to 3bet here with the dead money.. if he 4bets, you can safely fold pf.
Also notice his 3.0 AF, depending on how many hands you have on him, that is pretty dang aggro.. that's like having 5.0+ af running 28/22 right?
As played with such little info, I think you need to call this down or raise the flop... depends on his cbet/turn af stats though.
I think he has QQ/JJ enough here.. what are your stats by the way? Is he a reg? would you think that he thinks you would 3bet AK? So much info we don't have here...
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Outlaw
Also notice his 3.0 AF, depending on how many hands you have on him, that is pretty dang aggro.. that's like having 5.0+ af running 28/22 right?
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I thought it's the other way around
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GatorJH
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: HotLanta
Posts: 3,179
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Not gonna comment on pre-flop as others have mentioned the squeeze, but if I were villain and playing a taggish regular I would double barrell this board quite frequently. It may be a leak but I have noticed that many regs will float the flop on a board like this but fold to a double barrell.
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Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by minSim
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Outlaw
Also notice his 3.0 AF, depending on how many hands you have on him, that is pretty dang aggro.. that's like having 5.0+ af running 28/22 right?
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I thought it's the other way around |
You may be right.. I just learned about this the other day and might have it mixed up.
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