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AJs issue

  
 
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bspahn
Old 07-21-2008, 06:16 PM     Post subject: AJs issue #1 (permalink)  
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here opp is 19/13. my question is, am I generally best just 3betting him here, as played I think i have to just call the flop and fold the turn...

if the turn is a blank, I call a turn bet, what would you do if turn is blank and he checks?

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG mostlyLucky ($242.30)
UTG+1 Pokerbotontilt ($200.00)
CO UK_Raz ($208.00)
BTN Hero ($200.00)
SB PLATYPUS-9 ($174.55)
BB bigmiller001 ($273.70)

Pre-flop: ($3, 6 players) Hero is BTN
1 fold, Pokerbotontilt raises to $7, 1 fold, Hero calls $7, 2 folds

Flop: ($17, 2 players)
Pokerbotontilt bets $13, Hero calls $13

Turn: ($43, 2 players)
Pokerbotontilt bets $30
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Marshall28
Old 07-21-2008, 06:54 PM #2 (permalink)  
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if you are just calling a decently wide range here you need to be checkraising this flop pretty damn often. id do it probly 100% of the time until i knew my opponent was going to play back at me. Then maybe only 1/2 the time.

In this situation it's almost a necessity to checkraise, reason is, you don't want to be checkraising this flop with just bluffs, and you definitely don't want to be check/calling it with bluffs, so theres no reason to do the same when you hit the top of your range.

i woulda just 3bet preflop, yeah hes tight, and it's definitely an argument for cold calling, which i dont mind, as long as you make moves on flops that hes likely to have nothing as well as likely to c-bet.

if u c/r here and he raises u should feel pretty comofrtable getting it in here w/ 45, AJ/KJ, QJ starts to get a little tricky, clubs, and sets.
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mixchange
Old 07-21-2008, 07:18 PM #3 (permalink)  
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raise flop to:
1) valuetown FD's and worse jacks
2) make villain define his hand
3) protect your hand
4) make villain go batshit

u can flat call this flop with a stronger hand that has fewer overs which may hit villain (q, K)

marshall hero is IP in this hand
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bspahn
Old 07-21-2008, 07:27 PM #4 (permalink)  
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being that opp is tagg, i'm just not sure raising here is the best option. i'm NOT getting value from QJ,KJ etc because it's rare he will have these, if he's on a flush draw it's minimum Ax if not AK/AQ in which case if he 3bets i'm folding this 100% of the time. all i'm really beating here id say is a dry AK/AQ or a lower pp in which case i accomplish next to nothing with a raise here.
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Marshall28
Old 07-21-2008, 08:05 PM #5 (permalink)  
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my mistake for not realizing u were in position.

if its the case hes never putting more money in unless youre beat, probably you should just call here then fold the turn, and raise here everytime you have a bluff. i think u might be playing a bit too nitty if u cant get any action from a weaker hand in this spot, i mean, if the guy isnt even calling a raise w/ KJ this is about the most profitable spot you can find to bluff raise.
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mixchange
Old 07-21-2008, 09:10 PM #6 (permalink)  
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well bspahn u need to be raising flops with TPTK as well as other hands to balanceo. Sometimes you can pop it here with 99, 88, 1010, Axc as well

this drives tag's batshit

if you have the hand all figured out, why post it? Sounds like you have your mind made up.
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nutsinho
Old 07-21-2008, 10:03 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 preflop is a really obvious call. flop is debatable. turn is a really obvious call if you have no other read than 'taggy 19/13'. River is where u need to make a real decision, hope you got to one.
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bspahn
Old 07-21-2008, 10:52 PM #8 (permalink)  
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folded turn
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nutsinho
Old 07-22-2008, 07:33 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 what did you estimate his range to be
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griffey24
Old 07-22-2008, 02:07 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixchange
well bspahn u need to be raising flops with TPTK as well as other hands to balanceo. Sometimes you can pop it here with 99, 88, 1010, Axc as well

this drives tag's batshit

if you have the hand all figured out, why post it? Sounds like you have your mind made up.
mix - I don't really agree with this. Raising hands like 99-TT on this board is fully turning your hand into a bluff. When you raise these hands, what are you gonna do if he shoves? If your answer is fold, then raising these hands is pretty bad. If your answer is call, that's fine, but you're gonna get owned pretty often by his shoving range.

Against some villains, I think raising AJ here is definitely good, but against a nitty 19/13 who's raising from EP to begin with, there aren't many hands worse than ours that are playing back at us.

As played, I call turn 100% and re-eval on river.
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Marshall28
Old 07-22-2008, 06:09 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixchange
well bspahn u need to be raising flops with TPTK as well as other hands to balanceo. Sometimes you can pop it here with 99, 88, 1010, Axc as well

this drives tag's batshit

if you have the hand all figured out, why post it? Sounds like you have your mind made up.
mix - I don't really agree with this. Raising hands like 99-TT on this board is fully turning your hand into a bluff. When you raise these hands, what are you gonna do if he shoves? If your answer is fold, then raising these hands is pretty bad. If your answer is call, that's fine, but you're gonna get owned pretty often by his shoving range.

Against some villains, I think raising AJ here is definitely good, but against a nitty 19/13 who's raising from EP to begin with, there aren't many hands worse than ours that are playing back at us.

As played, I call turn 100% and re-eval on river.
if youve successfully tilted him to the point you are raising him nonstop in this spot, its definitely feasible to raise 99/TT and stack off for value. It's not even that uncommon.
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nutsinho
Old 07-22-2008, 06:32 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall28
Quote:
Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixchange
well bspahn u need to be raising flops with TPTK as well as other hands to balanceo. Sometimes you can pop it here with 99, 88, 1010, Axc as well

this drives tag's batshit

if you have the hand all figured out, why post it? Sounds like you have your mind made up.
mix - I don't really agree with this. Raising hands like 99-TT on this board is fully turning your hand into a bluff. When you raise these hands, what are you gonna do if he shoves? If your answer is fold, then raising these hands is pretty bad. If your answer is call, that's fine, but you're gonna get owned pretty often by his shoving range.

Against some villains, I think raising AJ here is definitely good, but against a nitty 19/13 who's raising from EP to begin with, there aren't many hands worse than ours that are playing back at us.

As played, I call turn 100% and re-eval on river.
if youve successfully tilted him to the point you are raising him nonstop in this spot, its definitely feasible to raise 99/TT and stack off for value. It's not even that uncommon.

it actually is uncommon to aggressively stack off with underpairs vs a 19/13. you can quote me on this.
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mixchange
Old 07-22-2008, 08:13 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffey24
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixchange
well bspahn u need to be raising flops with TPTK as well as other hands to balanceo. Sometimes you can pop it here with 99, 88, 1010, Axc as well

this drives tag's batshit

if you have the hand all figured out, why post it? Sounds like you have your mind made up.
mix - I don't really agree with this. Raising hands like 99-TT on this board is fully turning your hand into a bluff. When you raise these hands, what are you gonna do if he shoves? If your answer is fold, then raising these hands is pretty bad. If your answer is call, that's fine, but you're gonna get owned pretty often by his shoving range.

yeah actually those hands have too much show down value... instead of 99-tt it should be something like a gutter or 2 overs

but I just hate calling with a mid pair, to see him fire turn again. such an annoying spot and it seems like we fold the best hand too often.

maybe i'm just playing spewy lately, I used to never do this but i've got an aggro streak in me


Quote:
Originally Posted by griffey24
Against some villains, I think raising AJ here is definitely good, but against a nitty 19/13 who's raising from EP to begin with, there aren't many hands worse than ours that are playing back at us.

As played, I call turn 100% and re-eval on river.

i agree, but why not just fold PF?
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