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Roel

11-21-2007, 08:40 PM Post subject: AJ0 out of position

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 88

Hi guys, always love reading the posts here and thought i'd put up one myself... My game has been in a rut the last month or so and it feels like hands like these are the problem.

My first post, so bear with me.

Hand at PKR, no stats, villain plays pretty loose preflop but otherwise no reads.

Table #5010403 - Waikiki
Starting Hand #246606974
Last Hand #246606661
Game Type: Hold'em
Limit Type: No Limit
Table Type: Ring
Money Type: REAL MONEY
Blinds are now $1/$2
Button is at seat 1
Seat 1: Indiskutabelt - $329.48
Seat 2: Wozzer - $43
Seat 3: Hedonic - $248.25
Seat 4: DrugstoreCowboy - $100.92 (away from table)
Seat 5: Roel103 - $249.75
Seat 6: bellabella - $200
Moving Button to seat 2
Hedonic posts small blind ($1)
Roel103 posts big blind ($2)
Shuffling Deck
Dealing Cards
Dealing [Jd Ac] to Roel103
bellabella folds
Indiskutabelt raises to $6
Wozzer folds
Hedonic folds
Roel103 calls $6
Dealing Flop [4c Ad Tc] -- Pot $13
Roel103 checks
Indiskutabelt bets $8
Roel103 raises to $20
Indiskutabelt calls $20
Dealing Turn [Qc] -- Pot $53
Roel103 checks
Indiskutabelt bets $16
Roel103 calls $16
Dealing River [2h] -- Pot $85
Roel103 checks
Indiskutabelt bets $85
Roel103 ?

Love to hear your thoughts.

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EzDuzIt

11-21-2007, 08:49 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Green Bay

Posts: 915

flop C/R is small, retarded, and pointless. just lead out.

Phantaroth

11-21-2007, 08:56 PM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 505

Way to keep new posters:

Step 1:
Call something they do in their first posted play retarded.
Step 2:
Step 3:
Profit

obv

Anyway - I think re-raising preflop might put you in a better spot later on. Re-raise preflop, i also fold preflop if re-raises. Because you did this, you then have to lead the flop. If he calls, I think you should c/f or c/c the turn depending on your read.

As played, I think he has you crushed so you must fold, but I don't think he played it particularly well... did he have AQ?

EzDuzIt

11-21-2007, 09:17 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Green Bay

Posts: 915

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantaroth

Way to keep new posters:

Step 1:
Call something they do in their first posted play retarded.
Step 2:
Step 3:
Profit

poor use of the step, step, profit thing. doesnt even make sense, like i profit if he stays or doesnt. but way to be a douche.
it was a retarded thing to do. im helping him out, he shouldnt do that anymore.

Galapogos

11-21-2007, 09:18 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: The Loser's Lounge

Posts: 2,323

I just fold thisor 3-bet it OOP until I have a better feel for the table. Calling just puts you in this position against an unknown which sucks. As played fold river.

Also if you're gonna c/r the flop, might as well follow through with another bet on the turn since you picked up the nut flush draw and a straight draw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.

Roel

11-21-2007, 10:10 PM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 88

I did fold to the river bet, the big bet just made me wonder if he wasn't just taking advantage of me being so obviously scared of the clubs.

I think 3-betting the river would be the way to go here. Just didn't want to build a pot OOP with this hand. Also playing the turn more agressively might've worked.

tx for the input anyways, i can take some -constructive- criticism, i am a big boy

benny999

11-21-2007, 10:26 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 1,567

against unknowns i just play straightforward, like medium hand = medium pot...c/c or lead flop, c/c turn, c/f or b/f river.

Deanglow

11-21-2007, 11:24 PM

#8 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: lol

Posts: 2,443

Fold preflop bet the flop fold the turn fold the river

ilovemypuppy

11-21-2007, 11:53 PM

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 5

What was your plan preflop? Flop tp, hopefully out-kick him, and win a smallish pot?

I'd rather 3-bet this preflop because we're gonna be OOP and it's gonna be hard to extract value out of a weaker hand most times, unless he has KJ on a J64 board or something. I'd say 3-bet 60%, fold the other 40%.

On flop, I'd rather make it a bit bigger, like to 24-26. You are not accomplishing much by making it 2.5x his bet. If he has a draw, you're giving him a good price to draw, and if he has a weak ace, you're not getting enough value.

Given that you c/r (for value?), you should bet this turn most times as the Q didn't hurt you, it actually helped you because you have a re-draw to the nut flush.

I'd get like $36 given flop play, and probably fold if he shoves since we only have 9 (possibly 7) outs unless you think he's shoving A9, which I doubt he is.

Roel

11-22-2007, 02:34 AM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 88

The real problem lies with the preflop call then...

The flop c/r was to determine where i stood and meant to take the pot right there, and if i got called i'd be pretty much done with the hand. Kinda to snap off a cbet? Problem with that is i reraised way too little.

But then on the turn he bet so little i (almost) had odds to draw to the flush. I didn't want to risk getting reraised and having to toss it. So i ended up handing him a lot of chips without ever knowing where i stood.

Vi-Zer0Skill

11-22-2007, 03:34 AM

#11 (permalink)

Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Nov 2006

Posts: 1,742

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roel

IMO the preflop call is fine

Here are a few reasons why i wouldn't c/r the flop (with a medium strength made hand):

1). You do not want to get 3bet
2). Your hand is doing very well against his c-betting range, but not very well versus his range that calls a flop check/raise. I'd guess, without more information on the opponent, that his calling range would be more weighted towards Ace-x hands that beat you rather than ones you beat.
3). Also, turn bet on a non club turn is likely to mostly fold out the Ace-x hands you were beating. Therefore, you are essentially turning your hand into a bluff.

I like c/c flop and turn, and bet/fold a non club river

EZ leading out here and getting raised on a drawy flop OOP with a vulnerable (and non feltable) made hand obv sucks, so im definitely against leading the flop except versus known passives/call stations.

I guess since you've been reading you're not exactly "new", but welcome to FTR anyways!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroters

Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools

EzDuzIt

11-22-2007, 03:51 AM

#12 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Green Bay

Posts: 915

i actually thought he was the preflop aggressor when i first posted, but even still the small C/R sucks.

silu73

11-22-2007, 03:55 AM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2006

Location: New Zealand

Posts: 1,009

I sometimes 3-bet and I sometimes call with AJ out of the blinds. However, if I call I go into check/call on flop & turn and if board allows (i.e. no club in this instance) I would lead river. However, I wouldn't call a shove.

By c/calling 2 streets you are allowing yourself to show a good hand at showdown and opp will look you up often enough. Leading the river after c/calling 2 streets it often looks like a busted flush draw to opp.

Numbr2intheWorld

11-22-2007, 04:56 AM

#14 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Aug 2006

Posts: 3,561

Numbr2intheWorld will become famous soon enough

I'd probably c/c the flop and lead most turns. As played you have to fold the river... Because he's not value betting any worse and i doubt he's bluffing 1/3 of the time.

3-betting pre is fine, but you could really go either way.

And also, question directed towards ilovemypuppy... is that your screename on fulltilt? I'm just wondering.

Check out my blog http://suited-aces.com

ilovemypuppy

11-22-2007, 05:12 AM

#15 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

And also, question directed towards ilovemypuppy... is that your screename on fulltilt? I'm just wondering.

The same screen name on FTP.

sauce123

11-22-2007, 06:23 AM

#16 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Dizzy

Posts: 2,405

is it lucky???

I got more flava than fruitstripe gum

ilovemypuppy

11-22-2007, 06:38 AM

#17 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 5

He's not my lucky puppy, I'm not Fred.

minSim

11-22-2007, 08:45 AM

#18 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

I 3-bet this a lot preflop, but I don't mind a call.
Flop I don't see any other play than being standard than a c/c, because leading generally does weird stuff and a c/r folds lot's of worse hands and get's called or 3-bet by FD's or hands that beat us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

I'd probably c/c the flop and lead most turns. As played you have to fold the river... Because he's not value betting any worse and i doubt he's bluffing 1/3 of the time.

In general after flop, do you lead turn a lot because you expect to get called by a T, worse A and FD's?
- Do you also lead turn if the flop was like 6cAd2c?
- Do you also lead club turns?

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