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JL
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10-15-2008, 10:02 PM
Post subject: AJ TPTK $200NL Line Check
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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Just sat down.
Never seen villain before.
$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
CO ($97.45)
Hero ($197.00)
SB ($233.65)
BB ($913.25)
Pre-flop: ($3, 4 players) Hero is BTN  
CO calls $2, Hero bets $9, SB calls $8, 1 fold, CO folds
Flop:    ($22, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $15, SB bets $40, Hero calls $25
Turn:  ($102, 2 players)
SB bets $45, Hero calls $45
River:  ($192, 2 players)
SB goes all-in $139.65, Hero folds
Final Pot: $331.65
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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if i m just calling flop, I'm getting it in on turn
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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if im calling the turn, this is a perfect river i snapcall
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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JL were you planning on calling any rivers?
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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I'm confused how you didnt call river. Like Genitruc I probably just stick it in on turn though. This looks an awful lot like a semibluff to me, especially the weak turn lead, looks like he's trying to set his own price.
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Just playing to improve.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,339
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I don't hate looking this up, although it's a great way to start a session one buy-in in the hole. Looks like a set line to me but with no information about him it's really hard to say. He could be going all the way with a busted draw or over-playing a worse Jx, but he's probably not.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Would a set shove river though? I mean, maybe he would, but his small bet on turn if he had a set would make me think he puts hero on the FD and wants him to come along, so wouldnt either some kind of small bet, or check to induce bluff make more sense?
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Just playing to improve.
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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A set definitely shoves river BJ, it's a 2/3 pot bet and you should be playing a set this way for value. Checking river here with a good hand when hero has called the whole way and the draws missed is a huge leak. Anything we get value from by shoving the river is probably checking the river as well.
As played I fold river vs. unknown. villain can play Kx of spades this way, KJ, 46, sets
I just think there are more combos that beat you and bet this for value than pure bluffs on the norm. I tend to give unknowns credit more than most, and I believe that villains that do pull off these types of bluffs will become overconfident and try them again, and I pick it off the next time.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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If we're putting hero on a hand with value though, why wouldnt we (villain) bet turn more? At least enough to setup river for 1/2 psb.
Then again I make mistakes assuming villains think about stuff like that.
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Just playing to improve.
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JL
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Genitruc
JL were you planning on calling any rivers?
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I was actually planning on folding the turn to a significant sized bet.
After he bet so small on the turn, I felt that I had to call and hope he checks the river or bets small again.
Once he shoved the river, I was quite sure that I was crushed.
A small flop raise + small turn bet + river shove = the nuts a lot of the time against the typical $200NL Euro donk.
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JL
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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If I had a read that this guy was donkish, then I re-raise the flop every time.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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oops (deleted)
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Kagey
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 158
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Your line looks so weak that I think any thinking player is going to shove his air on this river. If I was villain I'd find it difficult to put you on anything but Jx or a busted draw ( I know that easy to say seeing the cards). However with no reads on villain and him having none on you I reckon it's pretty close.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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kind of unrelated, but if we ever got into this situation vs a thinking villain who was capable of bluff CR flops, I don't think we could ever ever ever fold because of what kagey posted above
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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I don't think I'm ever, ever folding this on river. The main thing I'm worried about is some Kx that bluff checkraised flop
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alexos
I don't think I'm ever, ever folding this on river. The main thing I'm worried about is some Kx that bluff checkraised flop
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Yah, I don't think I ever fold this if I get here.
Sometimes he has KJ, but how often does he really c/r that?
You're only really legitimately beat by 666 and maybe some KQ spades type hand.
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