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NLHE lahooozaher
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08-22-2006, 07:19 AM
Post subject: Aces vs. probable nit hits top set on monotone board
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 916
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Opp is 15.x/5.x/1.3/~100 hands, this call feels bad but ugh. My image at the table shouldn't be too loose nor should it be too aggressive. I had been picking my spots and showing down good cards.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
MP ($110.85)
Button ($66.05)
Hero ($217.10)
BB ($140.05)
UTG ($141)
Preflop: Hero is SB with A , A .
UTG calls $1, MP calls $1, 1 fold, Hero raises to $5, 1 fold, UTG calls $4, MP folds.
Flop: ($12) 2 , 4, A (2 players)
Hero bets $9, UTG raises to $18, Hero raises to $40, UTG raises to $136, Hero calls $96.
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bdawg56kg
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1,201
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3-bet more on flop or just call. With these stacks and the action I'd probably just call and c/r a safe turn all in. I doubt this guy is semibluffing with the Kh, so I'd expect him to bet the turn when checked to.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bdawg56kg
3-bet more on flop or just call. With these stacks and the action I'd probably just call and c/r a safe turn all in. I doubt this guy is semibluffing with the Kh, so I'd expect him to bet the turn when checked to.
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A:Kh:/A:Qh: will check the turn behind, so I like a 3-bet all-in. I don't like the size of this 3-bet, you'll get in trouble if Villain just calls.
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Robert
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kokkedal, Denmark
Posts: 1,109
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Against a nit like this I often just call the flopminraise and reevaluate turn. Is this bad? In my experience nits have the goods way too often for a 3-bet on the flop to be correct, or what?
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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I think the likeliehood of a lower set combined with 33% equity against a flush (which is unlikely with a 15 vpip limp/call range imo) make this better to 3bet big on the flop.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
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A 15/5 doesn't limp-call UTG with sooted stuff.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
A 15/5 doesn't limp-call UTG with sooted stuff.
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That is your answer right there. Good call Johnny!
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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Robert
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kokkedal, Denmark
Posts: 1,109
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
A 15/5 doesn't limp-call UTG with sooted stuff.
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true johnny. This is a lower set very often, 3-bet this mofo
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bair
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 953
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15/5 can definitely have KQs here
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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If he has KQs or QJs I guess it is GG. I still have outs to the boat, and the chances he is pushing a lower boat or a Heart draw make up for any odds I don't have if he has a made flush. I have to call here.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,603
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----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------
Hand #34295955-2052 at Hutchinson (No Limit Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 22/Aug/06 02:06:53
Terry Diamond is at seat 0 with $246.05.
_Suicide_ is at seat 1 with $47.15.
Moraine is at seat 2 with $287.70.
danielini is at seat 3 with $255.20.
Derty 21 is at seat 4 with $203.10.
jdubbb is at seat 5 with $317.60.
The button is at seat 5.
Terry Diamond posts the small blind of $1.
_Suicide_ posts the big blind of $2.
Terry Diamond: -- --
_Suicide_: -- --
Moraine: Ah As
danielini: -- --
Derty 21: -- --
jdubbb: -- --
Pre-flop:
Moraine raises to $7. danielini folds. Derty 21
calls. jdubbb folds. Terry Diamond folds.
_Suicide_ folds.
Flop (board: Kd 5d Ad):
Moraine bets $16. Derty 21 raises to $65. Moraine
goes all-in for $280.70. Derty 21 goes all-in for
$196.10. Moraine is returned $84.60 (uncalled).
Turn (board: Kd 5d Ad Js):
(no action in this round)
River (board: Kd 5d Ad Js 3s):
(no action in this round)
Showdown:
Moraine shows Ah As.
Moraine has Ah As Kd Ad Js: three aces.
Derty 21 shows 5h 5c.
Derty 21 has 5h 5c Kd 5d Ad: three fives.
Hand #34295955-2052 Summary:
$3 is raked from a pot of $409.20.
Moraine wins $406.20 with three aces.
----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------
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NLHE lahooozaher
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 916
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
A 15/5 doesn't limp-call UTG with sooted stuff.
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This was exactly what I was thinking. He's not calling anything that plays the flop this way except KQhh/44/22 and off the odd chance he does have a flush, I have a redraw. Turn was a 2 and the river didn't matter, he had 44.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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if 5% pfr range includes KQs then 3bet and get it all in early.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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double posting makes me a retard
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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triple posting has the potential to make me homsexual (sry)
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Umm, you aren't seriously contemplating a fold are you?
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NLHE lahooozaher
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 916
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
Umm, you aren't seriously contemplating a fold are you?
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Not against him, but against a looser player I would. Lately, I have come to feel that unless I flop the nuts I can't get my money in with the best hand EVER. That is why I am still only taking shots at the $100 game. I still play the $50 game and I have a freaking $7500 roll and every time I get up to take shots I get manhandled in the big pots I play so I question everything about the big pots I play now.
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NLHE lahooozaher
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 916
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
triple posting has the potential to make me homsexual (sry)
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I thought you were trying to get a point across, lol.
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NLHE lahooozaher
Not against him, but against a looser player I would. Lately, I have come to feel that unless I flop the nuts I can't get my money in with the best hand EVER. That is why I am still only taking shots at the $100 game. I still play the $50 game and I have a freaking $7500 roll and every time I get up to take shots I get manhandled in the big pots I play so I question everything about the big pots I play now.
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Damn man, you need to play at better tables!
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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I'm not convinced that going crazy with sets on flushed flops is a good thing.
I would probably just call to hedge against being up against a made flush, give myself the chance to fill up cheaply, and to encourage my opponent to overplay hands I beat.
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NLHE lahooozaher
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 916
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by benny999
Quote:
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Originally Posted by NLHE lahooozaher
Not against him, but against a looser player I would. Lately, I have come to feel that unless I flop the nuts I can't get my money in with the best hand EVER. That is why I am still only taking shots at the $100 game. I still play the $50 game and I have a freaking $7500 roll and every time I get up to take shots I get manhandled in the big pots I play so I question everything about the big pots I play now.
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Damn man, you need to play at better tables! |
I've thought the same thing and I leave tables if I'm sitting with > 2 good players at a 6 player table. I've tried the non monster tables at Party and nothing good came from that either.
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
I'm not convinced that going crazy with sets on flushed flops is a good thing.
I would probably just call to hedge against being up against a made flush, give myself the chance to fill up cheaply, and to encourage my opponent to overplay hands I beat.
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Yuck.
You're basically a 2-1 dog against a flopped flush and that's so rarely the case that not getting your money in on this flop is baaaad for fear of a flush. I may just call to get it on a safe turn, but if it four flushes you might get all your action killed or even pushed off the best hand. You can't even consider laying this hand down or playing it slow to lose less to a flopped flush that we still have decent pot equity against. If the board pairs a flush might even get away from it if you show considerable strength (though very unlikey). If you're not willing to felt top set on a monotone board in a HU pot then you really need to be less of a nit.
NLHE lahooozer, even against a loose player contemplating a fold in a heads up pot here is just horrible. The range for a loose player includes so many worse hands. If he doesn't have a flush draw he is drawing to like one out or running quads, and if he has a high flush draw he is a 3-1 dog. On the rare occasion you're behind, you have a ton of outs and a lot of dead money in already with very likely the best hand. Do you see why folding is bad yet? Running bad sucks, but even so you really shouldn't question yourself in these hands if you happen to lose on a cooler. Not to mention that stacks aren't even deep, this is a no brainer.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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I dont get the talk of waiting for a safe turn. its not like the guy is doing this with AKh or something. we have alot of equity vs his range on the flop and if we wait until the turn it just cuts it in half when it blanks. also, waiting for a safe turn kills our action vs lower sets whn a heart comes.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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One of the reasons that I would just call is that a nitty player only calls a substantial reraise with a made flush. What, then, is the point of reraising? Because we feel a need to "protect" made hands on coordinated boards? I think what really motivates these plays is a fear of making decisions on later streets.
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bdawg56kg
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1,201
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
I dont get the talk of waiting for a safe turn. its not like the guy is doing this with AKh or something. we have alot of equity vs his range on the flop and if we wait until the turn it just cuts it in half when it blanks. also, waiting for a safe turn kills our action vs lower sets whn a heart comes.
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Say you 3-bet to 70 on the flop, so the pot is 150 with about 70 behind. Are you shoving any turn?
Or are you saying you would just overbet push the flop?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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ya your hand is good 99% of the time, and 30% of that 1% where it isn't good, you draw out.
Also this is a flop that you have to get all in on. The turn and river can really kill your action.
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
One of the reasons that I would just call is that a nitty player only calls a substantial reraise with a made flush. What, then, is the point of reraising? Because we feel a need to "protect" made hands on coordinated boards? I think what really motivates these plays is a fear of making decisions on later streets.
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Wow, that's not true at all. I'm sure he instafolds a set or top pair good kicker (both with or without a flush draw) once you raise. Right.
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