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AA deep. How to extract?

  
 
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euphoricism
Old 06-27-2007, 05:08 PM     Post subject: AA deep. How to extract? #1 (permalink)  
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100 NL, unknown villain. 150bb effective (he bought in deep, and i won a pot)

OTSAHRUK - Posts small blind $0.50
PRAISE4JESUS - Posts big blind $1
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to EUPHOLOGI [A A]
EUPHOLOGI - Raises $4 to $4
JAVAHAVA - Raises $9 to $9
PENGUINS25 - Folds
DCBRESBB - Folds
ROTSAHRUK - Folds
PRAISE4JESUS - Folds
EUPHOLOGI - Calls $5 ...? Shoving seemed retarded... 4 betting seemed ok, but obvious...
*** FLOP *** [ ]
EUPHOLOGI - Checks
JAVAHAVA - Bets $10
EUPHOLOGI - Raises $30 to $30 Good flop to fake bluff
JAVAHAVA - Calls $20
*** TURN *** [7s 3s 7h] [:Ad:]
EUPHOLOGI - Bets $40 [b] slightly undersized a little under halfpot.. but while its an awesome card, its a total action killer. Maybe check here?
JAVAHAVA - Calls $40
*** RIVER *** [7s 3s 7h Ad] []
EUPHOLOGI - All-In $68.70 well if he's come this far...
JAVAHAVA - Calls $68.70
*** SHOW DOWN ***
EUPHOLOGI - Shows [As Ac] (Full house, aces full of sevens)
JAVAHAVA - Mucks
EUPHOLOGI Collects $293.90 from main pot
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jackvance
Old 06-27-2007, 05:13 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 This is a brag post or what is the point?..
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bigspenda73
Old 06-27-2007, 05:20 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 The Ace isn't really an action killer if he can read hands/lines.
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noble007
Old 06-27-2007, 05:27 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Why is the question - How to Extract?
When you were able to get him to commit his stack?
Or is it an example of how to extract.
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euphoricism
Old 06-27-2007, 06:12 PM #5 (permalink)  
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I thought it sucked. I thought this was a must 4bet?
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euphoricism
Old 06-27-2007, 06:14 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
The Ace isn't really an action killer if he can read hands/lines.
What am I representing? I was hoping I was representing 88-QQish. Checking on the turn will just invite a check behind.. so I kinda have to bet..

ugh. I dont know what to do. This is why i shouldnt play 100.
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mixchange
Old 06-27-2007, 07:00 PM #7 (permalink)  
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perfectly played, what was the question? Maybe the 4bet vs. 3bet pf?

I have stopped 4betting aa as much, just to mix it up. I don't have enough of a sample hand size to figure it out, but I have even been willing to play 3way pots that are 3betted, even though villain is more likely to hit a hand, it's an interesting experiement to see if I can increase my AA winrate.

Not 4betting definitely makes villain feel like he's in control, and doesn't define your hand. Sometimes JJ-KK will be willing to then stack off on the flop, just because you didn't 4bet pf.

I like the turn bet, you are already defining your hand on the flop with your big re-raise. I seriously doubt he thought you had AK just because an A dropped on the turn.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 06-27-2007, 07:58 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
I thought it sucked. I thought this was a must 4bet?
I can't agree more. Best post in the entire thread!

lol not trying to be harsh, it's great that you realized this.

4 bet the pre, for sure and it's not even close. If he reraises more pre than i dont mind a call at all.

Clearly if we fourbet this hand plays out a lot differently. But as played I like close to potting the flop because of his range. And then same thing on the rest of the streets.

as played on turn like your bet given his range. river is obviously correct.
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euphoricism
Old 06-27-2007, 08:12 PM #9 (permalink)  
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What size do you fourbet? 3x his raise would be 27 and that seems like a lot. 2.5x, something like 22ish?
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mixchange
Old 06-27-2007, 08:36 PM #10 (permalink)  
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I don't know, I've had some interesting experiences with experimenting between 4 betting/3 betting AA

- on the 4th raise most people assume AA or KK and fold, or just setmine you. Against a looser opponent willing to part with chips or shorty, I happily 4 bet. Against a nit, I consider calling a 3bet.

- By calling the 3 bet, they don't know your hand

Three times recently, someone did this to me with AA or KK when I had AJs-AKs and got fantastic value they'd never have gotten from me if they had 4 bet -- I dumped like 1/3 stack on each when I would have mucked to a 4 bet.

so I dunno, I see good points in doing it either way, really I think each strategy is good depending on opponent.

with someone aggro I like to let them think they're in control and just call their 3rd bet.
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bigspenda73
Old 06-27-2007, 08:41 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 I hate 4betting and turning our hand nearly face-up 150bb deep. However, as ISF said, had his 3bet been bigger we wouldn't have to 4bet, but since he pretty much minraised I think we have to shallow the stacks out some more in order to easily get the money in.
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mixchange
Old 06-28-2007, 07:17 AM #12 (permalink)  
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ok, kinda along the same lines about not defining our hand, me likey:


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($131.85)
Button ($101.65)
SB ($87.45)
BB ($47.45)
UTG ($99.80)
MP ($59.70)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K, K.
UTG raises to $4, MP raises to $14, Hero calls $14, 3 folds, UTG calls $10.

Flop: ($43.50) 4, 8, 3 (3 players)
UTG checks, MP bets $26, Hero raises to $107, UTG folds, MP calls $19.70 (All-In).

Turn: ($196.20) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($196.20) K (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $196.20

Results in white below:
MP has Qd Kh (two pair, kings and threes).
Hero has Ks Kc (full house, kings full of threes).
Outcome: Hero wins $196.20.
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euphoricism
Old 06-29-2007, 10:28 PM #13 (permalink)  
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I dont really like that one. MP is half stacked. You should be after UTGs money.
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mixchange
Old 06-29-2007, 11:07 PM #14 (permalink)  
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UTG limp-called and checked the flop. Looks like a missed setmine to me, I don't think he's playing this one. Maybe AK, but AK definitely calls the $26 if I just call to potentially with $100. What if an A pops on the turn? I liked what I saw in the pot, UTG probably didn't have anything after checking flop and I didn't want to risk a stack-sized pot on letting him catch up in a way that probably beat me.

anyway, besides the flop play, calling the 3 bet illustrates the concept of not defining your hand too much PF that bigspenda mentioned.
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