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87s in a 3bet pot

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bode

08-10-2008, 02:24 PM Post subject: 87s in a 3bet pot

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2006

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Posts: 4,270

bode is an unknown quantity at this point

villain is 27/20/2 with a 3bet of 14.5%. Hes 3bet me 3 times out of the BB vs my button raise, i folded one and called one. The one i called was like ~10 hands ago so its fresh in his mind. I call his 3bet OTB w/ AQ0, call a 2/3 psb on Ah8s4h flop, and check behind a K turn/J river and he shows down Q5ss.

Obv 87s is a standard open here and i call the 3bet because we are 150bb deep and i got them SC's yo. Flop is a very similar texture as the last situation like this we were in so i decide to just call his cbet again. Ive been experimenting with floating some 3bet pots vs villains like this who are 3bet monkeys and have had some success just taking passive lines.

I want comments on the entire hand but i guess my main question is can i give a free card on this turn or do i need to bet and try to take it down here.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

saw flop|saw showdown

CO ($50)
Hero ($135.80)
SB ($62.65)
BB ($73.45)
UTG ($52.90)
MP ($51.15)

Preflop: Hero is Button with

.
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.75, 1 fold, BB raises to $5.5, Hero calls $3.75.

Flop: ($11.25)

(3 players)
BB bets $8.5, Hero calls $8.50.

Turn: ($28.25)

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $17.5...

Quote:

eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.

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Carroters

08-10-2008, 02:37 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Da Amberlamps

Posts: 2,217

Giving him a free card on this turn does not "bode" well.

It gives him a chance to A: hit his 6 outs and B: Rep scary ass rivers and put us in nasty spots where we will have to hero call or fold and C: get to showdown with an unimproved PP above our 8s - This be bad.

Don't think he's calling your turn bet often, so I'd say assume he folded n say wp.

dalecooper

08-10-2008, 02:48 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 3,107

I'd just bet, for a few reasons -

1. You may be ahead now but behind on the river - many of his hands are likely to improve. Combine that with

2. the fact that if you check behind the turn and he has a piece (or gets a piece on the river), he's probably more likely to call there than he was on the turn, because you're now repping a very small and polarized range. And finally

3. you don't want to give him good bluffing opportunities. A jack on the turn is a bad card to check-raise unless he happens to have AJ or JJ, but there are a lot of good bluffing cards that can fall on the river - any heart obviously, plus queens, sevens, nines, maybe fours.

bigspenda73

08-10-2008, 03:04 PM

#4 (permalink)

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bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

Wait he saw your check behind AQ after he checked the turn on an Axx flop and you want to bet here?

bode

08-10-2008, 03:37 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2006

Location: slow motion

Posts: 4,270

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Wait he saw your check behind AQ after he checked the turn on an Axx flop and you want to bet here?

thats y i b postin

i felt like i had to bet here on the turn, but it didnt line up well with the line i took with an Ace on a very simlar flop just a few hands ago.

Quote:

eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.

bigspenda73

08-10-2008, 05:08 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Well in the first hand I would have bet the turn or river 100% of the time. The fact that you didn't makes it difficult to credibly represent anything but AJ here.

This is actually a really interesting dynamic. For one I would say if he c/bomb'ed the turn I'd be inclined to call because he probably views your turn betting range all floats from the flop b/c of how you play AQ.

However, I think I give the free card here because of how he played the Q5s hand, he didn't bet the river so it looks like he'll be giving you a free showdown here a lot.

kmind

08-10-2008, 08:54 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Posts: 4,240

Completely agree with spendizzle

Fnord

08-10-2008, 09:15 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Well in the first hand I would have bet the turn or river 100% of the time. The fact that you didn't makes it difficult to credibly represent anything but AJ here.

This.

Also, lots of people will 3-bet very light out of the blinds on a blind defense and I've been considering a whole bunch of lines to exploit this. The short of it is that they're putting in a lot of money into the pot out of position with weak hands and if you think about it that way it's a pretty big mistake in the unlimited hold'them.

Given that, you can't be timid with AQ hitting an Ace against that sort of range and must be betting it for value/balance. Also, if you're taking flops against him you need to be rebluffing on boards that are unlikely to have hit his crap.

If you have more data certainly try to figure out what they're 3-betting vs flatting with and pull a sauce on them by playing back on boards that miss their range.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Marshall28

08-10-2008, 10:59 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 1,198

mostly what fnord said ... id add that given you botched the AQ so badly id probably just 4bet or fold this. villain is obviously not good, this is like 50nl anyways, it's absolutely unnecessary to have to know this much about the game to beat it... you really dont even have to 3bet to beat it.

if u dont understand how big of a mistake it is to showdown the AQo hand, u probably just shouldnt be flatting in this situation anyways.

nutsinho

08-11-2008, 04:17 AM

#10 (permalink)

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Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt

Posts: 3,280

check behind , usually fold to but occasionally raise a river lead. if checked to again then just check back.

My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.

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87s in a 3bet pot

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