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meeloche
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04-02-2008, 03:40 AM
Post subject: 8 high in 3 bet pot
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Villain has nittish stats over a small sample, I have a clean image. This the first time I've 3 bet him but I've seen him in a couple of 3 bet pots, none with the initiative.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Hero ($199)
BB ($219.05)
UTG ($142.80)
MP ($101.40)
Button ($220.70)
Preflop: Hero is SB with 8 , 9.
UTG calls $2, 1 fold, Button raises to $10, Hero raises to $34, 1 fold, UTG folds, Button calls $24.
Flop: ($72) 3 , 3 , 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.
Turn: ($72) A (2 players)
Hero bets $40, Button calls $40.
River: ($152) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $125 (All-In),
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silu73
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,009
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What are you trying to make him fold after you check this flop? I also don't like the 3-bet pre at all especially against a nit.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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I always make my first 3 bet a bluff cause 90% of the time i never see a flop.
I'm expecting him to fold all his hands that don't have an ace in them. Am I expecting too much?
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,322
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3-betting nits OOP light is almost totally pointless.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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aka_red
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: house
Posts: 903
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he called your 40$ on the ace what makes you think he will not call 125$ on the river?
also you has 9 high not 8 high like the topic says [amiretarded?]
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[11:11] <+bikes> bitches love your face
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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i dont like this. main reason is what galapagos said.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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BigLRIP
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BC
Posts: 194
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I don't know what his flop checking range is, and that kind of concerns me. It sucks if he checked back AK/AQ (might be a large part of his range?). I think your assessment about him folding everything except an ace is pretty spot on by the river.
Preflop is fine sporadically. Even nits isolate pretty loose on the button.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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ace is a good card to barrel only when we have good enough information that he doesn't have an ace in his hand; we get that by cbetting. since we didn't cbet we give up because he will still call turn with some underpairs and such that he would fold to a river bet, but he will also just flat with AK and call the river.
i dont mind firing the flop if we're firing a bunch of turns, but that still kinda sucks
pf is a problem. a nit isolates a limper, yea he has a hand; we can call if limper is bad and gonna call too, otherwise pitch. your logic about beginning of the session isn't necessarily correct since it may actually work against our favor since others especially nits tend to play unknowns straight forward.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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So I realized that the problem with preflop is that I thought about his isolation as a wide range because I would do this with a wide range. A nit however obviously doesn't do this.
So nobody thinks he checks the flop with a lot of pairs other than maybe QQ+?
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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i dont think he checks behind medium pairs. i think your assesment is right that he folds all non aces to the river bet. i might size the turn bet a little bigger and the river bet a bit smaller if you are going to do this. you say nit, but how nitty. i don't have too much of a problem with pf (leak?)
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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hes not going to check behind a midpair and then also call a turn bet with it when an ace comes...unless he's terrible at poker. anyway, basically im saying he has an ace a ton and he won't/should not fold it. i think this is pretty bad.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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Don't like the 3-bet much against a nit, don't like calling either. His range is just gonna crush us so much and we're not gonna win enough postflop to make up for it (seems like if we get it in on the flop he's mostly gonna be a little ahead or flipping).
C-betting flop against this guy seems v bad unless we plan to fire a ton of barrels, turn seems fine to get him off of the KQs, QJs type hands he may have taken a free card on the flop with, once he calls turn he probably has something like AT-AQ (I'd assume he 4-bets AK pre most of the time?) so river looks bad.
If you think he'll check back 55-KK on the flop then peel turn then river is goot obv.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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What kinda nit are we talking about here, some nits are just sooo weak/tight when it comes to being 3bet (they call with like TT+/AK) and if he's that type of nit then I think pf is ok.
However given the range I just gave him, betting the flop or river is a bad idea.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Quote:
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hes not going to check behind a midpair and then also call a turn bet with it when an ace comes...unless he's terrible at poker. anyway, basically im saying he has an ace a ton and he won't/should not fold it. i think this is pretty bad.
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Yeah this sucks. Once he calls the turn, most of his range is calling the river. This doesn't work anywhere near the percentage of time its supposed to to be plus ev.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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i don t think it's nearly as bad as everyone's saying and I think I'd make it 100 if I bet the riv
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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I think this is terrible. Nits usually bet pairs on this flop i think. Might as well bet flop and shove A turn if u plan on bluffing a nit.
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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Combined with the fact he might even make hero calls with KK on river and NEVER fold an ace either, and these hands make up >80% of his range
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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he was like 5/5 over 30 hands so no substantial stats.
He called both bets and he showed QQ. So yeah lesson learned Thanks.
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