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50nl, Is this shania or just retarded?

  
 
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pankfish
Old 04-09-2008, 11:43 PM     Post subject: 50nl, Is this shania or just retarded? #1 (permalink)  
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Villain has normal numbers, like 25/10 ish. Leads with top pair on most streets. I can see him making a hero call with worse, I can see him folding better. Feels like he wants a free showdown one way or the other.

One previous hand that stands out they called a 3 bet with A 3 and led the river with just top pair.

$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($52.75)
CO ($68.10)
BTN ($50.00)
SB ($102.90)
Hero ($52.25)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 5 players) Hero is BB
3 folds, SB raises to $1, Hero raises to $3, SB calls $2

Flop: ($6, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($6, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3.7, SB calls $3.7

River: ($13.4, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8.45
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Fnord
Old 04-09-2008, 11:46 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Why is betting the river better than checking behind?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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pankfish
Old 04-09-2008, 11:50 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why is betting the river better than checking behind?

I don't know if it is. Feels like he wants a free showdown though and I don't wanna give it to him. My bluffs have been getting called down by strange hands so I think that doing the same thing I've been doing with air with 99 is mixing value with my bluffs.

I check behind on a lot of boards, this just didn't feel like a board that I had to do it on. Especially after checking on the flop which neither one of us usually does with an ace in our hand.
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thizzSantaCruz
Old 04-10-2008, 01:20 AM #4 (permalink)  
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check river behind, I don't think hes calling with worse and Shanai as far as I understand isn't really a move, its just theory that you should think about when playing.
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pankfish
Old 04-10-2008, 01:35 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz
check river behind, I don't think hes calling with worse and Shanai as far as I understand isn't really a move, its just theory that you should think about when playing.

Yeah, question was if I was making good use of the theory. Checking is better 95% of the time, this is maybe one of them.
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EzDuzIt
Old 04-10-2008, 02:29 AM #6 (permalink)  
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this isnt really shania. all this means is that if you are going to vbet this lightly you can bluff here more. but you opponet probably isnt paying attention anyways and its not that great a spot. just check behind river.
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pankfish
Old 04-10-2008, 02:48 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EzDuzIt
this isnt really shania. all this means is that if you are going to vbet this lightly you can bluff here more. but you opponet probably isnt paying attention anyways and its not that great a spot. just check behind river.
Ok. I got mixed up between Wuff's post and Max's posts in the other thread. This hand I actually got called by worse, but I'm wrong here a lot too. I always spew chips being overly aggressive moving up levels.
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bjsaust
Old 04-10-2008, 03:14 AM #8 (permalink)  
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What part of the theory did you think you were applying out of interest?

Fairly standard spot, only bet river if you think you're more likely to get called by worse hands than better hands. In this case its unlikely, but...wow, what did villian have?
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pankfish
Old 04-10-2008, 04:01 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjsaust
What part of the theory did you think you were applying out of interest?

Fairly standard spot, only bet river if you think you're more likely to get called by worse hands than better hands. In this case its unlikely, but...wow, what did villian have?
K high so you don't have to read this.


The part where instead of only having bluffs here, I have an actual hand some portion of the time. Of course this isn't the nuts. I think I jumbled Wufwugy's and Marshall's posts with Massimos. I never actually read the original 2+2 thread though.

(warning: Donkey spewtard explaining his actions. May contain mighty flawed logic)
He called down with K high, which is worse than what I thought he had. I was about 90% sure he didn't have an ace from the way the hand went and couldn't put anything else that beat me in his range. he isn't loose so I can't put a straight in his range because I don't think he is opening those cards from the small blind(I don't think) and he doesn't have an ace because he always (or usually) leads with top pair. Only hands that beat me that he doesn't 4 bet preflop are 1010 and JJ.

From the way he played the hand by time we reached the river I thought he could only have two things. A) Some weak hand that he isn't going to fold to me ever or B) a hand that beats me that he wants to fold.

I would usually check this hand behind though.
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bjsaust
Old 04-10-2008, 04:11 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Hmm, I guess he thought you semi-bluffed the turn with a FD and continued on the river.

Shania is basically about value (at least in my view). The question is whether betting anything other than the nuts or a bluff enhances your value in this spot. Is betting a marginal hand on this sort of river likely to increase the value of this spot beyond the value of checking marginal hands behind here?
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will641
Old 04-10-2008, 04:17 AM #11 (permalink)  
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 if he were a big call station fish i would vbet here, but otherwise check behind.
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nutsinho
Old 04-10-2008, 08:55 AM #12 (permalink)  
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 seems like a good value bet to me-only worried about TT and possibly JJ. he might rarely call twice with worse but i think betting here should show a profit.
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ZwiFT
Old 04-10-2008, 09:16 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Why no cbet?
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bode
Old 04-10-2008, 10:53 AM #14 (permalink)  
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 this is one of those spots talked about in the shania thread where you dont know whether youre betting for value or as a bluff.
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Ash256
Old 04-10-2008, 05:59 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho
seems like a good value bet to me-only worried about TT and possibly JJ. he might rarely call twice with worse but i think betting here should show a profit.
Exactly
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