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humanfugitive
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12-27-2009, 05:04 PM
Post subject: 50nl River Options
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 147
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villain is tag 21/16 hasn't gotten out of line and I've been running pretty nitty on the table.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
MP ($98.35)
CO ($88.80)
Button ($58.10)
SB ($10.25)
BB ($60.85)
Hero (UTG) ($69.85)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with 10 , 9
Hero bets $2, 1 fold, CO calls $2, 3 folds
Flop: ($4.75) 5 , J, 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $3.50, CO raises to $9, Hero calls $5.50
Turn: ($22.75) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks
River: ($22.75) 9 (2 players)
Hero ???
c/c or b/f in attempts to bluff him off Jx or TT
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XTR1000
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
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b/f wont get him off Jx/TT, dont know how likely he is to vbet worse or bluff, my default would be c/f
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
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yo
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Toadstool
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 442
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Betting for the reason you state is bad, given how you played you're not getting him off anything better by betting the river, unless you overbet.
Betting to induce a raise from a missed draw is a better reason for betting. Given he checked behind the turn, which people wouldn't usually do without a boat, I think his range is usually made up of missed draws or random air that he just decided to make a move with.
Given the fact that he checked the turn makes it less likely he'll attempt to bluff a missed draw, and the fact that he occasionally checks back a 5/boat, C/C or C/F might even be better based on betsizing and timing. Also, if you knew more about the villain, a C/R could be pretty good here if his betsizing and timing lead you to believe he has Jx a lot and can fold.
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humanfugitive
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 147
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Ok I guessed a b/f line would rep a pot controlled over pair but as you say, any bet can easily be flatted by Jx.
Which leads the question, would I ever take this line with QQ-AA? If C/Jam or leading blank turns would be optimal, it would make the line above very polarized...
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WtfFml
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9
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From my point of view, it really looks like he is on a missed flush draw as well. His turn check just makes me feel like he is weak. I say b/f the river
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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humanfugitive,
First of all, FOLD PREFLOP!!! THEN FOLD TO HIS FLOP RAISE!! (sometimes you're drawing dead and more often you're holding the worst draw, just get out of the way and wait for a better scenario).
Second, you are thinking way too deep into things worrying about your range in a 50nl game I think. I don't really even focus much on range balancing at 400-1knl except vs the guys I play thousands of hands against.
Anyways, put him on a range for raising the flop, here's an example.... J55dd, he raises Jx occasionally, 5x often but does not have it very often at all, and diamonds which he will raise often and will have often.
When he checks back the turn you can be sure he doesn't have a 5 or JJ, and it's also less likely he has a jack since if he was raising the flop for protection against a FD he'd likely continue "protecting" his hand and fire the turn.
I'd say he has a pure bluff or missed diamonds here (or 7xdd which you beat) VERY often and I would definitely go for a check call. I'd be happier to call if he made a bet near the size of the pot, but would call regardless of his sizing.
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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I have no idea how any of you could even consider giving the advice to bet the river here, that's pretty terrible thinking. There's zero logical reason to do so.
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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flatting the flop just doesn't sesem very good to me if he's any kind of a thinking opponent. if we have a nitty image and we're opening UTG, i can't imagine he's value raising here worse than QQ. also, i'd be surprised if he's bluffing with any kind of large frequency. so we're flatting with extreme ROI because most of his range is better FD's and FH's, and i can't imagine our implied odds are anything awesome either.
i would consider 3b'ing before i'd consider flatting, but even that doesn't seem awesome given the strength of his range (who even knows if he's folding the NFD +overs).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.  |
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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damnit, the one piece of good advice i give in this forum and marshall beats me two it by two minutes.
also, betting the river is like the ULTIMATE case of follding out everything we beat and getting called by nothing we beat. it should be kind of obvious our choices are between c/f and c/c.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas. |
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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surviva,
As long as you didn't copy, your read of the situation was dead on, so still be proud of it.
: )
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humanfugitive
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 147
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marshall28
surviva,
As long as you didn't copy, your read of the situation was dead on, so still be proud of it.
: )
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I get your point about flatting flop and reverse implied odds and the decision on the river. His range is clearly balanced on the flop and polarized on the river.
But what about folding pre? I've been trying to balance my UTG open by replacing lower pps with scs and axs, but ur saying it's not necessary?
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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It's dumb to do that. Keep the pairs in the opening range, don't have stuff like 67s 78s 89s or A5s, those hands play terribly OOP and there's just no purpose to balancing at your stakes.
Forget the whole concept of balance in the first place, you don't need it yet.
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Ravageur
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Official Montreal SwampRat
Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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River is a c/fold. I think you can fold the flop for previously stated reasons. If you make your hand you're not getting paid off big anyway and you get coolered quite a bit as well.
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Family Cruise IMO
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shakesss
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 205
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marshall28
I have no idea how any of you could even consider giving the advice to bet the river here, that's pretty terrible thinking. There's zero logical reason to do so.
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I think the reason for betting could be made if the guy is a bit spewey. a less than half pot bet on the river could induce a missed draw to raise. he is definitely not gonna raise a jack in that spot.. he is always gonna raise a fh or 5 in that spot. When he checks back the turn you can remove 5's from his range and keep in jacks and fd's and someimes fh's... when the fd misses we could represent a small bluff that he would come over th e top of as a bluff and we use our 9's as a bluff catcher. we will be valuetowning ourselves alot of the times coz he will just call with a jack alot. but because of the smaller sizing it might save us some $$ if he were to vbet a jack for more.. when he raises that spot as a bluff because of the sizing alone.. we can make more profit from our pair sometimes..
However, i would only use this play when i have a pretty good read on the guy.. in this case with not much info.. i like c/c or c/f depending on the size of his bet.. i think he has a jack here alot because u raised utg and bet called the flop.. i think 80 plus % of the time he is pot controlling a jack coz ur range looks pretty strong.
also i think pre flop play and flop play were were pretty bad..
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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If I was going to bet, I would probably b/c like $6
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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grindinginnj
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Grinding In New Jersey!!
Posts: 143
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You cant check call river as a bluff catcher, I dont like betting river at all. Is betting the river suppose to be a blocking bet? The 9 has some showdown value, I think a J is a big part of his range. But he could have smaller pair fd too.
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Stackin chips and rippin lips!!
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