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speedcake
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05-11-2009, 08:02 AM
Post subject: 50NL: KK facing BB heat by Nit
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 434
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My Opponent is 17/14/2.2 over 500 hands
This is the first time he has done this in the blinds and maybe too small a sample, but fwiw he has a 1% 3bet and zero 4bet % so far.
Obviously AA is a very real possibility, but can't be his entire range.
I'd have position on the flop so I decided to call and keep the rest of his range that I beat in the hand. Totally retarded? And what about the flop? Felt it was about as good as I could hope for, but what about my bet sizing? At first I wanted to ship, there isn't alot of room left to just raise.
But I also thought he'd see a flop raise as total weak sauce after my pre-flop flat.
How bad is this and how could I play it better next time? I'm pretty sure my initial raise preflop is horrid and normally I do raise larger in this spot .
So the two things I think I'd do different would be to 3bet larger preflop and just ship flop (if I don't ship preflop).
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (CO) ($54.65)
Button ($28.40)
SB ($96.15)
BB ($78.85)
UTG ($58.80)
MP ($43)
Preflop: Hero is CO with K , K
UTG bets $1.50, 1 fold, Hero raises $4, 2 folds, BB raises $10, 1 fold, Hero calls $6.50
Flop: ($22.75) 8 , 3 , 8 (2 players)
BB bets $10, Hero raises $22
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I think what applies from my thread applies here, he's not shoving as a bluff over your $22 raise so just shove flop
I seriously don't know when (if ever) flatting 4bets be done
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Ship pre. Raise is fine, he can bluff shove AK over your small raise.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Parasurama
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DMT
Posts: 820
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Da Goat, he can't bluff shove because he can't expect to have any reasonable fold equity, hero's raise is committing.
Flatting KK and AA pre are better against aggressive players who cbet and barrel too often, this doesn't seem like that kind of player, he's likely already mentally committed himself after 4b'ing so might as well get it in pre and as played just shove flop
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Sry I misread. 4 betting is the way to go. Shove flop as played. I don't fly get calling pre since I think opp will almost always get it in pre anyway.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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speedcake
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 434
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thx guys
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your banner burned here
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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ship pre as played ship flop
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,814
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mixchange
ship pre as played ship flop
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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what's wrong w/ calling the flop, or PF for that matter?
also, 17/14 isn't a nit is it?
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mormannorman
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 32
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
also, 17/14 isn't a nit is it?
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isn't he a nit if he 3bets only 1 percent over 500 hands?
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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WOULD YOU CALL PHIL HELLMUTH A NIT?
lol obv, missed the 1% 3bet thang
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lNormajean
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 103
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
WOULD YOU CALL PHIL HELLMUTH A NIT?
lol obv, missed the 1% 3bet thang |
i would defo call phil all the names under the sun, suckout with 47o so he fumes and calls me an idiot then vents to his wife how i suck cos im european.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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spenda 17/14 is a nit even without the 1% 3bet stat.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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I disagree w/ just about all advice in this thread, lol ...
I think hero played the hand pretty decent other than the small 3bet, just make it a little bigger then everything else looks fine to me.
This is a spot I would DEFINITELY flat preflop, I've gotten into TOO many situations with these guys who 3bet like 1% where I pick up aces or whatever and I 4bet them, and they tank and tank and tank and fold. THEY DON'T GET IT IN PREFLOP W/OUT AA!!! I've also seen such weird things like from a dude that 3bets 2%, I'll have kings in a spot like this and decide to just call, then the hand will play out and somehow he'll show up w/ something like 89s .... I'm sitting there thinking WTF??? But yeah, flat call definitely best.
Minraising flop is definitely better than shoving on an 882r board for the reason that if you shove, he can't put you on any kind of draw, he has to put u on a pure bluff or a very strong hand. And if you flat the 4b, it's unlikely you are sitting on some random bluff. I don't mind just calling then shoving the turn either to get more value from his bluffs.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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shit marshall and I on the same page
WORLD'S ARE COLLIDING
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CBAT
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NY
Posts: 831
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Fold Preflop?
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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I might consider flatting if he 3betted, but once he 4bets I think he wants to go with his hand. I just noticed the odd 3bet sizing, 3x or 3.5x is what i'd pump it up instead of 2.7x or whatever
I think 500 hands not enough to discount AK/QQ possibilities. I would hate to get his AK all in pre but have him B/F or C/F when he whiffs most flops.
id say 17/14 is considered a bit nitty, but you still get to be a TAG if you are actually aggressive postflop
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