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50NL JJ OOP tricky 4 bet spot

  
 
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Nixon81
Old 02-05-2009, 09:50 AM     Post subject: 50NL JJ OOP tricky 4 bet spot #1 (permalink)  

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CO and BTN both regs. CO opening range wide and BTN potentially 3betting light in positon.
STATS:
CO VP:24 PFR:18 Steal from CO: 28
BTN VP:14 PFR:13 3bet from BTN: 11

I think a 4bet is good with JJ here as JJ is definately ahead of BTN's 3bet range. My concern here is when BTN ships can I fold and if i do call is it ever profitable?

If his shipping range is TT+,AQs+,AQo+ then he is ahead 53-47.

Thoughts??
Note: I cant get the HH converter to work for my first post, aplogies.

***** Hand History for Game 2402480919 *****
$50.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, February 05, 11:51:40 ET 2009
Table Settle Down (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Seat 1: melnais ( $25.26 USD )
Seat 2: Nixon81 ( $71.23 USD )
Seat 3: Jossan_89 ( $71.00 USD )
Seat 4: kraavikunn ( $17.82 USD )
Seat 5: johan_haren ( $83.00 USD )
Seat 6: wail79 ( $43.10 USD )
melnais posts small blind [$0.25 USD].
Nixon81 posts big blind [$0.50 USD].
Dealt to Nixon81 [ Jd Js ]
Jossan_89 folds
kraavikunn folds
johan_haren raises [$2.00 USD]
wail79 raises [$7.00 USD]
melnais folds
Nixon81 raises [$19.00 USD]
johan_haren folds
wail79 raises [$36.10 USD]
Nixon81 calls [$23.60 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3d, 6h, 3h ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ts ]
** Dealing River ** [ Ad ]
wail79 shows [Ks, Kc ]
Nixon81 doesn't show [Jd, Js ]
wail79 wins $85.45 USD from main pot
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minSim
Old 02-05-2009, 10:13 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Yeah 4bet call. It's an even easier decision because of BTN not being full stacked.
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jimmy44
Old 02-05-2009, 10:24 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 How many hands you have on BU? 14/13 with 3bet of 11% from BU is quite contradictory, but possible.
Generally, if you 4bet someone, you have to get it in with Jacks. BTW your 4bet is was too big, $16-17 should be enough.
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Nixon81
Old 02-05-2009, 12:38 PM #4 (permalink)  

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155 hands, is this enough?

Ty for advice on 4bet size, but 16-17 is little ore than min raise?
Is this enough for a 4bet spot and do you suggest that sizing so I have room to fold?
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minSim
Old 02-05-2009, 03:43 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixon81
155 hands, is this enough?

Ty for advice on 4bet size, but 16-17 is little ore than min raise?
Is this enough for a 4bet spot and do you suggest that sizing so I have room to fold?
155 hands isn't really that much for 3bet stats, but with 11% over 155 you at least now he's capable of light 3betting.

Generally your 4bet size should not be more than a little under 1/3 of the effective stacks. That way you once you 4bet as a bluff you can still fold, and it induces lighter shoves from villains usually.
In this hand even a min4bet would commit you with pretty much any hand actually. The smaller 4bet here is just to invite lighter shoves.
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meeloche
Old 02-06-2009, 12:47 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 Obviously if you're 4 betting you shouldn't be folding. I don't think I'd get this in vs a 14/13, I'd probably just fold pre. I can't imagine 50nl being aggressive enough to cold 4 bet and get this in and it wouldn't be against this player.



 
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bjsaust
Old 02-06-2009, 12:08 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meeloche
Obviously if you're 4 betting you shouldn't be folding. I don't think I'd get this in vs a 14/13, I'd probably just fold pre. I can't imagine 50nl being aggressive enough to cold 4 bet and get this in and it wouldn't be against this player.
This for me. Its not a question of whether JJ is ahead of BU's 3-bet range, its a question of whether its ahead of his stack off range. If we closed the action I might call, but as is safest option is to fold.
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pocketfours
Old 02-06-2009, 01:02 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 Just folding JJ after pot has been raised and a reraised pre is going to show a better profit than a 4bet in the long run.
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BigPapi
Old 02-06-2009, 01:41 PM #9 (permalink)  
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I dont think villains shipping range includes TT and AQ at this limit, perhaps not even JJ/AK.
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Nixon81
Old 02-06-2009, 04:28 PM #10 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by meeloche
Obviously if you're 4 betting you shouldn't be folding. I don't think I'd get this in vs a 14/13, I'd probably just fold pre. I can't imagine 50nl being aggressive enough to cold 4 bet and get this in and it wouldn't be against this player.
You obv haven't played much 50nl recently then. Ty for all the comments. Folding pre was my first instinct but couldn't resist a cold 4bet based on BTN's 3bet stat!
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Toadstool
Old 02-06-2009, 08:27 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 Fold is best. If you do 4bet, make it smaller. something like 13 or 14, then check call/ship most flops if he does flat.
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noble007
Old 02-06-2009, 08:50 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Even though people stack off light at 50nl when you 4bet cold like that your range looks really strong so he won't be shipping light.

& on the maths side you're calling about 24 & total pot will be 85
just go 24/85 and you need about 27% equity to call - I think.

If CO is raising light and BU is 3betting very light (I don't think a 14/13 usually is though over a bigger sample) Then you can 4bet as a bluff sometimes rather.
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