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Irisheyes
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06-29-2006, 09:27 PM
Post subject: 50k hands please rate my stats because I suck at poker
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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And just to show that there was at least a few hands where I did win before my $6000 downswing:
See my main problem is that because I'm new to Party and 6max I'm not sure whats acceptable as normal variance. I know I never used to have swings like this at Fortune FR, but I wasn't playing as many hands over there and I was basically set hunting because the players are so shit.
Have I got any glaring problems?
Thanks in advance for any help, I really appreciate it.
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
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Hey man.
Looking over your stats you don't seem to have any big problems with your game. If anything maybe you should loosen up a little bit. You may be one of the only players that are tighter from the SB than I am. I think you should raise more in LP with marginal hands like Ax, unsuited connectors and gappers, suited junk, etc. I haven't played a whole lot with you, but from my limited experience with you I consider you a good solid player. I'm generally looking to stay out of your way and just focus on beating the fish.
Your downswing is not really too abnormal, keep at it and play solid and things will turn around. If you want you can AIM me at alaskandevil81 and we can chat, good luck.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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work on ways to increase your winrate. mostly this comes from postflop, not anything that can really be put into stats
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Is 31% Bet an ok "First action after a preflop raise"? I think cbetting too much could be one of my leaks.
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andr3w321
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 413
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get rakeback
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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What probably contributed to your immediate success and then downswing is predictability. At first you were an unknown and people didn't realize how tight you are or how you play. Over time you run into the same players that know you are tight. They know they can stay out of your way, and they probably figured out how to bluff you out of some pots. So, that percentage of players that caught on can take advantage. Factor that with variance and there you go. I'm not saying that's the exact issue, but it may be part of it.
I think as you move up in stakes, you'll run into regulars more often and you must adapt. Gabe alluded to it by mentioning postflop play. It's obvious he's adapted to the regulars at his tables.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
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Is 17.69 VP$IP tight for 6max? I thought you'd need to be a little looser than that (I mostly play FR).
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Is 31% Bet an ok "First action after a preflop raise"? I think cbetting too much could be one of my leaks.
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mine is also 31%
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
Is 17.69 VP$IP tight for 6max? I thought you'd need to be a little looser than that (I mostly play FR).
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His results show you don't need to be looser. He's a winning player and w/ RB he's even better. He just wants to make more money and improve - as does everbody else. When you stop and think about, it's amazing players skilled like Irisheyes don't crush these limits with all the poor players out there. It's a tough game to consistently beat. And just when you get good enough you move up and learn that you suck all over again.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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I made an abrupt direct change to from pretty much only 200NL FR. That probably explains the tightness.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
I made an abrupt direct change to from pretty much only 200NL FR. That probably explains the tightness.
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Yeah, I'm not criticizing. I play FR on Party and only play 6-max on Absolute because their FR tables are nitfests, and I don't have enough hands put in there to have a decent idea of what an 'ideal' number should be. I've just observed that everyone's PAHUD numbers seem higher at 6max than FR.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
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i dont think there is an ideal. ive seen people with 17 crush the game, and theres a player with 40+ that i play with that beats the game. its just a style thing.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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how often are you pushing people off hands post flop?
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
how often are you pushing people off hands post flop?
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Not very often at all, not enough I would say. I'm a very "make a hand, bet, bet, bet" type player. I can deal with a certain ammount of resistance and I can make some judgements as to when people are bluffing due to the history between us or whatever but I always feel that when ever I try to get tricky I always end up getting pwned.
Like even see this whole business of checking the turn with TPTK vs a TAG in position. Then when he bets into me on the river I'm like "wtf do I call now or fold?" and I don't know how to judge it. Always seem to go wrong on me. On the other hand if I just bet the turn and get raised I can easily realise I was beat and just fold. I know thats a leak but I haven't learned how to judge hands good enough yet I don't think. Like say I do check on the turn and then a flush hits on the river and then when he bets how the funk do I know whether to call or not?
I'm also very bad at getting reads, actually I don't bother at all. I'll raise AA UTG, look at FTER for a minute then look back and see how many people still have cards and just bet whatever. I should prolly do something about this but I don't really know what the important things to look for are.
Its 2:30 am and I'm half drunk btw  <3 mifty
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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you are probably throwing away huge value preflop in hands like AT and A7s and medium-big connecting cards like T9 and QT.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
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Quote:
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Its 2:30 am and I'm half drunk btw <3 mifty
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This is cool. However, check the time of my reply (pwned)
Also, how does my name become all sorts of nonsense like Muffer, Mifty, Muff etc :P
I dont really know how to recommend 'learning to read' other players.
Perhaps play some limit to see how betting etc works along with Millers book of ToP?
Dunno, that helped my game an awful lot when i moved to mediumish stakes but maybe id just been playing long enough to begin learning.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
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Location: over there
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
you are probably throwing away huge value preflop in hands like AT and A7s and medium-big connecting cards like T9 and QT.
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What makes you say that?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Because when I am playing 17 vpip at 6 max these are the hands I find I am not playing.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
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I dunno. I deffinitly play those hands. AT I raise everywhere except the blinds and even JT I'll raise over a limper on the CO.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
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you probably could stand to open up your limp-behind-on-the-button range.
If a couple of bad players limp in EP and HJ, I will limp behind on the button with any suited or connected, including hands like T7o.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
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Ya ok I'll look into that. ty
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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when you think about it, you are playing less than one hand every orbit. Which means that you are 1.5bb in the hole (from this orbits blinds) with every hand you play.
Your attempt to steal blinds stat is way too low, and as a result, all of the +EV situations you put yourself in take a 1.5bb hit.
http://mypokermatch.com/poker-articl...d-Stealing-195
Read this, and increase attempt to steal blinds stat to around 30-35%. Stealing blinds is extremely significant money that you are leaving on the table.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
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This is true renton. I actually have read that stealing guide and it's something I deffinitly need to work on.
I'd say if I seperated my first 10k hands and my last 10k the difference in attempt to steal % would be significant.
These are all good suggestions though.
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underminedsk
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Reraising you from the button
Posts: 250
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Here's a way Ive found to increase my EV. Say I raise Ts7s from the button, and get 1 caller. the board goes Jh 9c 2h As 7d. I make a standard cbet on the flop and get called. Villan checks the turn to me and I check behind. River comes and the villan bets full pot into me, Ive found hes got a busted heart draw enough to make calling with a crappy pair really profitable.
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online br: $14,000, @400NL full ring, 100NL 6 max
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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ummmm I agree with the tight preflop thing. I play full ring mostly and my VP$IP is 17%!!! I'd suggest raising some shit sometimes when folded to on the button.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
ummmm I agree with the tight preflop thing. I play full ring mostly and my VP$IP is 17%!!! I'd suggest raising some shit sometimes when folded to on the button.
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i think its mor about making some iffy calls in small/medium pots in button vs blind battles rather than 'just' raising
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
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The way I see it is that with a 17% VP you are almost never playing any sub-par hands, which makes my decision against you extremely easy - by and large I'll just stay out of your way, and if I do have a monster and you're in the hand I'll try to act in a way that gives you the lead.
I am usually the tightest in my (admittedly only $50NL) 6max games with a VP of about 26%, for what it's worth. But the extra 9% of hands played means opponents are 1/3 less sure that I am playing a premium hand, and that's a huge window of uncertainty compared to your 17%.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
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I've been comparing your numbers with mine and one thing that stands out for me is your First Action on Flop After a Pre-flop Raise: Bet 31.4%
I don't think you're c-betting enough. Mine's half again higher and my Check action is less than half.
I'm running 4.33ptbb/100 at 100NL right now.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
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You guys are right about the VPIP/PFR thing. It's something I'm working on even though it's like it's against my personality to be loose. If it makes a difference recently I've loosened up a good bit. If I look at my last 10k hands I'm 21/14
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
I've been comparing your numbers with mine and one thing that stands out for me is your First Action on Flop After a Pre-flop Raise: Bet 31.4%
I don't think you're c-betting enough. Mine's half again higher and my Check action is less than half.
I'm running 4.33ptbb/100 at 100NL right now.
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I feel that having it any higher then this would be spewing. It seems like everyone is either a floater or a calling station.
Could you estimate how often your cbets get called, I mean do you think it's too much at all?
When I first started 6max I cbetted way more then I do now and it felt like I was spewing chips all over the place. I need to work on my second barrels though.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Hrmm...your PFR is higher than mine though (and mine's too low)...so your c-bets are more likely to be called?
I'd say my c-bets are successful 75% of the time, maybe more. I don't know if there's a way to pull that stat from PT. I also limp/call and donk into the PF raiser a lot if I hit the flop or think that it's missed my opponent. I'd say that's successful about 75% of the time as well, and probably why my PFR number is low.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
I've been comparing your numbers with mine and one thing that stands out for me is your First Action on Flop After a Pre-flop Raise: Bet 31.4%
I don't think you're c-betting enough. Mine's half again higher and my Check action is less than half.
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totally disagree. Mine is 'only' 25% in the same scenario, however i can guarentee my check/raise percentage in the same scenario is waaaay higher.
My c-bets are still called a lot btw, and i get good value even from AQ on Qxx vs semi-decent players. Im only 19/8 to 21/12 stats too, so its not like i play a massivly wide range.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Quote:
I've been comparing your numbers with mine and one thing that stands out for me is your First Action on Flop After a Pre-flop Raise: Bet 31.4%
I don't think you're c-betting enough. Mine's half again higher and my Check action is less than half.
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totally disagree. Mine is 'only' 25% in the same scenario, however i can guarentee my check/raise percentage in the same scenario is waaaay higher.
My c-bets are still called a lot btw, and i get good value even from AQ on Qxx vs semi-decent players. Im only 19/8 to 21/12 stats too, so its not like i play a massivly wide range. |
...and I don't check/raise enough. But what are you disagreeing with? Not c-betting enough? Isn't a check/raise just a stronger c-bet? If you check/raise a lot it makes sense that your bet % will go down.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Quote:
I've been comparing your numbers with mine and one thing that stands out for me is your First Action on Flop After a Pre-flop Raise: Bet 31.4%
I don't think you're c-betting enough. Mine's half again higher and my Check action is less than half.
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totally disagree. Mine is 'only' 25% in the same scenario, however i can guarentee my check/raise percentage in the same scenario is waaaay higher.
My c-bets are still called a lot btw, and i get good value even from AQ on Qxx vs semi-decent players. Im only 19/8 to 21/12 stats too, so its not like i play a massivly wide range. |
...and I don't check/raise enough. But what are you disagreeing with? Not c-betting enough? Isn't a check/raise just a stronger c-bet? If you check/raise a lot it makes sense that your bet % will go down. |
bad players think c/ring is someone full of shit who is trying to buy the flop.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
bad players think c/ring is someone full of shit who is trying to buy the flop.
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Occasionally, I think that's true, but c/ring is mostly a dilemma for me. I think I lose a lot of value because I don't c/r enough with made hands, but it seems that whenever I check/raise the flop my opponent shuts down, and whenever my plan is check/call check/raise, it plays out as check/call check/check, finally resulting in bet/fold. Maybe I just do it in the wrong places?
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
bad players think c/ring is someone full of shit who is trying to buy the flop.
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Occasionally, I think that's true, but c/ring is mostly a dilemma for me. I think I lose a lot of value because I don't c/r enough with made hands, but it seems that whenever I check/raise the flop my opponent shuts down, and whenever my plan is check/call check/raise, it plays out as check/call check/check, finally resulting in bet/fold. Maybe I just do it in the wrong places? |
do both with air and show them
then do it with the goods.
You only need to set them up once.
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