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5 hands...cause I'm leaking like hell

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minSim

02-15-2008, 06:58 PM Post subject: 5 hands...cause I'm leaking like hell

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

Hand 1
Villains stats are 50/10/0.67 over 110 hands. I was playing too many tables to focus on reads.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($26.15)
UTG ($35.40)
MP ($41.35)
Hero ($26.95)
Button ($8.85)
SB ($23.70)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9

, J

.
1 fold, MP raises to $0.5, 1 fold, SB calls $0.40, 1 fold.

Flop: ($1.25) 4

, 5

, A

(3 players)
SB checks, MP bets $0.75, Hero raises to $2.25, SB folds, MP calls $1.50.

Turn: ($5.75) 2

(2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $4

hand 2
Villains was 18/18/6.46 over 270 hands. He was on a few of my tables. I noticed him being aggressive and stuff and he seemed like the best player playing atm.

I bet flop cause he looks weak and I want to get him of an A.
Turn he still still looks weak to me and I want to get him of I don’t know what, but I am planning to bet lots of rivers...and having the NFD with an over is nice of course.
That river is my gin card...and then what....

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Button ($9.15)
SB ($32.95)
Hero ($47.85)
UTG ($25.10)
MP ($23.80)
CO ($28.05)

Preflop: Hero is BB with

.
4 folds, SB raises to $1, Hero calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2)

(2 players)
SB bets $1.4, Hero calls $1.40.

Turn: ($4.80)

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3.25, SB calls $3.25.

River: ($11.30)

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $6, SB raises to $27.3, Hero....

Final Pot: $23.30

hand 3
Villain stats are 67/9/0.5 over 55 hands. No reads.
Tbh I don’t see anything I beat that bets the river. MAYBE QJ, but that’s a REALLY thin vbet.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

UTG ($7)
MP ($25)
Hero ($27.85)
Button ($24.90)
SB ($34.60)
BB ($34.95)

Preflop: Hero is CO with

.
2 folds, Hero raises to $1, Button calls $1, 2 folds.

Flop: ($2.35)

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.75, Button calls $1.75.

Turn: ($5.85)

(2 players)
Hero bets $4, Button calls $4.

River: ($13.85)

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $4

hand 4
I am sure I am leaking a lot in 3-bet pots. I thought this was a nice squeeze opportunity…but postflop gets when difficult…eeew.
Villains is unknown.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

SB ($8.15)
Hero ($27.50)
UTG ($15.40)
MP ($37.10)
Button ($25.70)

Preflop: Hero is BB with

.
1 fold, MP raises to $1, Button calls $1, SB calls $0.90, Hero raises to $5, MP folds, Button calls $4, SB folds.

Flop: ($12)

(2 players)
Hero bets $7, Button calls $7.

Turn: ($26)

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $8.5

Hand 5
Villains was 24/22/4.5 over 54 hands. No 3-bet history with him.
I 3-bet preflop because my hand is good, and I want to fold out lots of hands that are coinflopping with me atm, cause my hand plays hard postflop against this villain, where I’ll likely be folding the best hand on the flop very often when just calling preflop.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

SB ($34.20)
Hero ($25)
UTG ($14.55)
MP ($28.75)
Button ($30.10)

Preflop: Hero is BB with

.
3 folds, SB raises to $1, Hero raises to $3, SB calls $2.

Flop: ($6)

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3.75, SB calls $3.75.

Turn: ($13.50)

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $7

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meeloche

02-15-2008, 07:24 PM

#2 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2007

Posts: 2,131

1) converters messed but you called pf? I would fold pf and not try and make stations fold a pair of Aces

2) folding flop calling river

3) I b/f river you're not going to get raised unless you're beat plus you will get value from this type of player.

4) You really shouldn't squeeze a marginal hand without stats as played since you're turning your hand into a bluff I b/f turn.

5) I'm not sold on the 3 bet. I usually call ip.

minSim

02-15-2008, 07:25 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

Hand 1 I cal preflop. HH is a bit messed up.

pocketfours

02-15-2008, 07:26 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.

Posts: 2,166

pocketfours will become famous soon enough

You don't focus on reads but you still take into account stats?

1. Against tag why not, against passive fish not so good. I don't think this kind of marginal plays are very necessary when playing a huge amount of tables. I would like it more with at least some equity.

2. You made a bluff inducing wimpy river bet against aggro player so now call. If you plan to b/f then bet more.

3. You only need to win about 18% of the time. Fishy stats so I call. Doesn't really matter I would say. No leak either way.

4. What's difficult? So what if he bets small? Just fold.

5. I wouldn't raise preflop, but as played give up after flop.

will641

02-16-2008, 06:51 AM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: getting my swell on

Posts: 1,610

1) fold pre. fold to his c bet.
2) bet river harder, and call. other then that its fine.
3) fine. call.
4) i generally dont like squeezing at micro stakes w/o better then AJ or varying pocket pairs, but post flop played fine now fold.
5) why are you 3 betting this? our hand has no value unless we set up. give up after flop c bet.

Cash Rules Everything Around Me.

will641

02-16-2008, 06:53 AM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: getting my swell on

Posts: 1,610

with most these hands you are just making unnecessary spew plays at 25nl. you do not need to make these spew plays. the players arent good enough to pay attention to what you are doing really, and so table image matters very little.

Cash Rules Everything Around Me.

cjs55

02-16-2008, 02:38 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Sep 2006

Posts: 171

Hand 1: Call preflop is fine, definitely fold flop. He's got some crappy ace here much of the time and he's probably a station. I see so many passive plays at 25NL with Ace rag that they can't fold it's not even funny.

Hand 2: Ew. I'm probably checking the turn and taking my free card. Gotta wonder what is he calling this turn with? When people with high AFs start playing passively I get worried. Gotta call river but I'm not particularly happy about it.

Hand 3: Instacall against a 67/9, this one is easy. A 67/9 can have ridiculous hands here. Let me throw some out hand that I have seen in similar spots here: AA, 88-JJ, total air, Q8-QJ, and a 7. The point is, you're at least even with his range and your pot odds are great.

Hand 4: I don't squeeze with marginal hands unless I know my opponents. Postflop I cry a little and fold to his tiny wuss bet.

Hand 5: I don't mind the 3 bet here preflop because 24/22's at 25NL often get scared and get out of the way when someone plays back at them (and respect cbets too much in a 3bet pot). That said, definitely c/f after he calls flop.

A thought: Trying to get people to fold at 25NL is like a woman with perfect breasts getting breast reduction surgery. The reason 25NL is so profitable is because people won't fold crappy hands. Play to this strength, not against it, and get in spots where you have value.

Cbets are fine (most players will fold if they don't have at least a pair), but after they call flop they are often in station-mode.

bode

02-16-2008, 02:49 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: slow motion

Posts: 4,270

bode is an unknown quantity at this point

without commenting on any hands directly, you just need to stop trying to make so many moves. All you need to do is play your cards to beat 25nl. You dont even need to bluff really. When i moved back down to 25nl at the beginning of the month i had been bluffing way too much at 50nl and just too much FPS all around. I really focused on not doing anything fancy, and bluffed maybe 1 time out of every 1000 hands (not counting cbets obv) and was killing it in no time. Just stop thinking that your playing 200nl and that villains are paying any attention to you because they arent. There are maybe 5 good villains at that level, so just avoid playing with them at all and stack the fish.

Quote:

eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.

minSim

02-18-2008, 01:57 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

Thanks everyone.

Of course you are all right about moves not being necessary at 25NL. 4 of the 5 hands being moves gives me an image I make a lot of them, but actually these (apart from a rare light 3-bet IP) are all of them from a 1,500 hands session. I agree with the point tho.

Results and my comments/questions:

Hand 1: Villain folded.
I don't mind preflop, cause against a loose passive callingstationish villain I think I have enough implied odds. Against a TAG I have enough FE with my position and combined with implied odds. Probably only marginal +EV, but w.e. can’t be very bad preflop imo.
This being the loose passive type is not the right type to pull the move on, so definitely agree on that.

Hand 2: I folded river.
This was the most interesting hand for me. All the way to the river is all preference, I don’t think it’s really bad. I never expect this particular villain to have a worse diamond raising for value here. So as played I have a bluff catcher, getting 21 to 44. I think I have to call now, but it’s close. Without knowing villain raised river, why is 3/4 PSB a better bet than 1/2 PSB? In the end, will it really get more value from worse diamonds?

Hand 3: I called, villain had Q8o.
This one botters me a lot. I think I played the hand fine till river. B/f is an option, maybe even best afterwards, but at the moment I thought it was a pretty clear c/c or c/f on pot odds.
What botters me is that villain ‘dares’ to valuebet Q8 here AND that I was thinking about folding for 20 seconds. I almost folded this because I don’t expect him to bet QJ- for value….but in the end I just called ‘because it’s 25NL’.
Seeing what the result was I am thinking if I really have to put these TPBK hands into an opponents range at these stakes. It seems quite ridiculous, but if they are there they cost me lots of money atm.

Hand 4: I folded turn
My hand didn’t matter anything to me when I made the squeeze play. I just thought there was a lot of dead money out there and I had a solid image. Imo a squeeze is more about the dead money than about my hand, so why not. It’s not very +EV, but it’s not awful either I guess.
Flop is an easy cbet. I don’t think b/f is an option at the turn, it would be a shove and I don’t think I’m ahead often enough when called or have enough FE on low aces.

Hand 5: Villain shoved over, easy fold for me.
Most comments said call preflop. That susprises me, because imo calling is our worst option.
We never have enough implied odds to sethunt cause villains range is too wide. So to be profitable we cannot fold any flop we didn’t hit. So either we have to play a guessing game on boards that likely didn’t hit villain and/or make some moves and/or hope villain will give up somewhere.
Only thing in our favour is position.

Folding is definitely an option, maybe the best. We don’t have enough implied odds and it’s BvB so making moves isn’t great.

My reasoning for 3-betting is that villain folds A LOT of hands. This is a good thing because we pick up the dead money and almost all hands are coinflopping with us or better, so making them fold makes us money.
If villain 4-bets light I agree 3-betting is bad, but I don’t have reads he does….and I still think fold>call then tbh.
But I am definitely open for discussion on this.

IowaSkinsFan

02-18-2008, 02:11 PM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough

Hand 1: theoretically and in a vacuum horrible, both flop raise and turn bet.

Hand 2: Decent now fold. I threebet pre though most of the time and as you played it fold or raise flop bet (call is okay though)

Hand 3: b/f the river but call ldo

Hand 4: I think we're behind a lot but i call on street because we only have to be ahead on the turn like 20% of the time. Rest of the hand is fine besides pussy flop bet size.

Hand 5: Threebetting is fine, calling likely better. Line is fine with described image.

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minSim

02-18-2008, 02:34 PM

#11 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

What's your flop plan when calling preflop in hand 5 ISF?

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