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sauce123
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03-05-2007, 01:28 AM
Post subject: 5/10 at Tstone- Tough River Decision
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Ok background- I have been playing for about 2 hours. Table is a mix of semi-nitty typical live players and a few taggy online MSNL players. I have been pretty active, raising limpers in position and I have gotten my stack in once on a semibluff which wasn't called. I was also caught double barreling a couple hands ago.
Villain in hand is probably the loosest at the table, and a few hands ago he got stacked in a 3bet pot where some older donk called a 3bet with Q9 and turned the nut straight against this guy's small straight. He doesn't seem to be visibly tilting, but most people play slightly different after busting. Villain seems slightly loose passive/tricky, as in the 3bet pot he checked his made straight on two streets where I was the original 3bettor and I didn't Cbet. On river he led out and was raised all in by the old guy. He has also limped a ton preflop.
Ok. Villain limps in early MP I complete in the sb with 55 BB checks.
Flop Kh 7h 5h pot 30. I lead for 25 villain calls.
Turn 7c. I bet 35- villain calls
River 8d I bet 160, villain thinks for a few seconds and raises to btw 400-450 ( I dont remember exact amnt- don't think it really matters either, basically a small raise)
I'll post my reasons for the line I took in a bit.
Comments on all streets appreciated. Thanks. Sauce.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Is he any good?
I mean im guessing he is, or you wouldn't even be considering this. I personally bet more on the turn, anything thats calling 35 is prob calling 45 or 55. 35 is barely half pot.
I think the riv is annoyingly a fold. I understand that literally the only hand I can think of this guy having is 8h8. But also the fact that it's really hard to put this guy on a hand at all. But unless the guy sucks idk what hand he's playing this way bedsides a higher boat. You have the lowest one out there.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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why couldnt villain have 78 here?
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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um this is at least a call. The decision should be whether to raise or not.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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How can this ever be a fold at live poker. You have to first consider this guy does not have you on a hand whatsoever. He has no idea how strong you are. I think I'd have to atleast call.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bode-ist
why couldnt villain have 78 here?
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meh, 78 would be just as weird as K7 and 75. I mean unless the guy is like uber nit he's probably raising the turn where he hits his trips.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
um this is at least a call. The decision should be whether to raise or not.
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But a good opponent is never raising here without a boat right? This isn't like the horrid 1/2 game, this is like a decent 5/10 game.
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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Villain has 64 or a flopped straight often enough (more often than 88, 78, 75, KK, or K7, IMO) to call this, though I'd really want to push...
He's obviously willing to get money in with less than the nuts, so there's no way you can fold getting around 2:1 on a call, IMO.
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Poker is freedom
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bode-ist
why couldnt villain have 78 here?
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meh, 78 would be just as weird as K7 and 75. I mean unless the guy is like uber nit he's probably raising the turn where he hits his trips. |
I think you might have missed the fact that Villain possibly flopped a flush and decided to play it tricky (see flopped straight that checked two streets). He probably didn't even notice the board pairing on the turn (" ZOMG I HAVE A FLUSH!")
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Poker is freedom
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
um this is at least a call. The decision should be whether to raise or not.
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But a good opponent is never raising here without a boat right? This isn't like the horrid 1/2 game, this is like a decent 5/10 game. |
but he's not good, op mentioned he was loose and passive.
Also, 5/10 live is softer generally than 1/2 on pokerstar i'd wager.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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I don't think your line is bad if you were looking to get raised on the turn.
As played I'd just snap call. If the guy's decent there's not much value in raising.
Also, your line may look like busted hearts to him.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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With 2 to 1 yes I think you have to call but I think the posters are giving opp too little credit. Even a lot of bad players aren't raising here with a flush.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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i call this and dont give too much weight to other options in my considerations.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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I agree whole heartedly with Renton. Your decision is to raise or call. Mostly it's a call.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Yeah, I don't think we can raise the worst full-house here given the way this played out.
Probably a call, although with enough information this might be foldable.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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I'd call here most of the time I think. Stack sizes would help.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
um this is at least a call. The decision should be whether to raise or not.
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But a good opponent is never raising here without a boat right? This isn't like the horrid 1/2 game, this is like a decent 5/10 game. |
but he's not good, op mentioned he was loose and passive.
Also, 5/10 live is softer generally than 1/2 on pokerstar i'd wager. |
I think you vastly overestimate your typical 5/10 live player.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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underestimate do you mean? or are u speaking to isf?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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yeah hes talking about me.
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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Inst-Call
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Yea I called he showed 88- just that my gut was like FOLD FOLD FOLD FOLD, SCREW POT ODDS MUCK!!!!!
but I dont think I can or should prolly, might be kinda exploitable to muck bottom boat to small raises on river.... lol.
Anyways- I was looking to get raised on turn, trying to make a fake blocking bet as I had just been caught double barreling a couple hands ago and villain was one of the more aggro players at the table.
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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A passive live badish player is almost never bluffing here and he's not raising a straight for value. Don't we all remember how hard it was to make those raises and come around to the fact that the monster isn't under the bed?
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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First of all- this live 5/10 game wasn't full of tourists and drunk ppl and was muuuuuch harder than any 1/2 nl game I have ever played at Stars.
2nd- the villain in this hand was a 2p2er (maybe) I'm not sure but he was at least friends with the other two winning 3/6 nl players at the table to he wasn't completely out to lunch here.
That being said, I don't think he had played particularly well today and I definitely wasn't sad to be playing pots against him. Sauce.
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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It was live.. if your gut said fold so strongly, maybe you picked up something in his body language that betrayed his hand?
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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