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bjsaust
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07-11-2009, 04:32 AM
Post subject: 4bet bluff 200nl
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Took a shot, went fairly well except for this hand:
No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (MP) ($398)
Button ($230)
UTG ($216.40)
SB ($237.82)
BB ($295.30)
Preflop: Hero is MP with 3 , 3
1 fold, Hero bets $6, Button raises $21, 2 folds, Hero raises $49, Button calls $34
Flop: ($113) Q, Q , 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $45, Button calls $45
Turn: ($203) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks
River: ($203) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $130 (All-In), Hero folds
Total pot: $203
Villain is 27/24 with 9.1% 3 bet, 11% OTB and has been 3betting me a ton across 2 tables. Wouldnt be surprised if against me today he's 3betting more like 20-30%. I have around 80% fold to 3bet today, and he probably has me around 70% if he's got extra hands on me.
I think the 4bet is ok in isolation since he should fold a heap to me (he has 39% fold to 3bet and 41% fold to 4bet). My thought was he's more likely to give me credit since I've been folding so much, but then is he less likely because maybe I'm playing back? Maybe he just doesnt care either way and just calls whatever v's whoever.
I think cbet is bad. My thought was maybe he folds more because he's crushed if I have a Q whatever he has, but he's unlikely to give me credit for that. I think if I do I need to shove turn as well to have any chance, and really dont want to do that.
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Just playing to improve.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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41% fold to 4 bet is low not high. So I wouldn't bother 4 betting this guy light given your said dynamic. Although its pretty hard to figure that out by looking at a hand in a thread. Gameflow is something that you're gonna know better than us. As played c/f flop.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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I already explained my thought process but basically what meeloche said. C/f flop.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Yeah, for sure I think the cbet was the worst part of the whole hand.
Gameflow... I know at the time I was confident he'd fold a lot because I was sure he had me pegged as playing really weakly, so I think he folds a lot more than his 41% would suggest. Reviewing afterwards I'm not sure if a guy like this either pays that much mind, or if he's on the level where he thinks I'm more likely to be playing back since he 3bet me so much.
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Just playing to improve.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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4bet bluffing out of position 100bb is pretty bad generally speaking. If you were to do it with 33 precisely, then your best options are overbet jamming or making it like 72 and calling it off. Folding is frankly better. You need to have a hand that flops well (like J9s or something) if you are gonna make this small 4bet, since i hope you know its gonna get flatted a huge amount.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Hmm, didnt know that. Deliberately kept it slightly small thinking it wouldnt affect his fold range much, and would allow me to fold to a shove without ignoring pot odds.
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Just playing to improve.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
4bet bluffing out of position 100bb is pretty bad generally speaking. If you were to do it with 33 precisely, then your best options are overbet jamming or making it like 72 and calling it off. Folding is frankly better. You need to have a hand that flops well (like J9s or something) if you are gonna make this small 4bet, since i hope you know its gonna get flatted a huge amount.
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if you make it 72 and call it off might as well jam because he might be dumb enough to stick it in on a flip with like JT because he thinks he has fold equity, why would you want that
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Parasurama
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DMT
Posts: 820
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Sorry having some trouble reading the hh, he 3b to 21 and you 3b to 55 right? If that's true it's not really a relatively small 4b.
To echo Renton, 33 seems like a terrible hand to do this with, if he's really 3betting you that much committing yourself preflop is much better because you avoid having to play such an unplayable hand oop postflop in a bloated pot when he's going to flat you a lot of the time.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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wtf dont do shit like this with this hand
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Were you planning on calling this off?
If not, like Renton said I would rather 4bet with either some hand that might flop something reasonably (in case he calls) or have some blockers like Ax or something.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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hey wow i agree with iopq, wouldnt 4bet this small ever but id jam it sometimes
just fold to the 3bet preflop though 90% of the time
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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4bet size is fine imo. when did it become NOT totally standard to 4bet like 2.5x?
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Luke999
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: England
Posts: 238
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
4bet size is fine imo. when did it become NOT totally standard to 4bet like 2.5x?
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People still like to 4bet huge so there is no room for anything postflop, either as a bluff or with a strong hand lol.
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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some people 4bet or 3bet slightly more OOP and less IP
also consider in general regs will 3bet a stronger range to your UTG or UTG+1 opens so i would 4bet bluff less from here, or at least with blockers (KQ/AJ those types of hands)
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
4bet size is fine imo. when did it become NOT totally standard to 4bet like 2.5x?
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whenever you're not polarized, meaning your hand has okay equity and don't wanna get shoved over by say 55 or A5s, as is the case here.
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
4bet size is fine imo. when did it become NOT totally standard to 4bet like 2.5x?
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the 2.5x play is only when in position
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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This is like the worst flop versus a fourbet calling range. I'd say versus someone sane they are very likely to have KQ/AQ when calling a fourbet.
Everyone pretty spot on in this thread.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Yeah thanks everyone. I didnt even consider my cards here, just picked a spot, the fact I had a small PP was incidental. I'll try to have something more useful next time.
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Just playing to improve.
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