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400nl: three hands

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pocketfours

07-27-2010, 12:13 PM Post subject: 400nl: three hands

#1 (permalink)

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My stats for session: 29/24/13%

=======================================
Hand 1: Villain is a good TAG. Don't remember why I decided to flat pre.

SB ($396)
Hero ($717)
UTG ($406)
CO ($160)
BTN ($400)

Dealt to Hero 2

fold, CO checks, BTN raises to $16, fold, Hero calls $12, fold
FLOP ($38) 9

Hero checks, BTN checks
TURN ($38) 9

Hero bets $30, BTN calls $30
RIVER ($98) 9

Hero checks, BTN bets $68, Hero raises to $671 (AI)

=======================================
Hand 2: Villain is a fairly bluffhappy TAG.

SB ($397)
Hero ($1,321)
UTG ($424)
UTG+1 ($438)
CO ($1,219)
BTN ($100)

Dealt to Hero A

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $14, Hero calls $10

FLOP ($28) 2

SB bets $16, Hero calls $16

TURN ($60) 2

SB bets $42, Hero calls $42

RIVER ($144) 2

SB checks, Hero really wants to bet...

======================================
Hand 3: Line check. Villain is TAG who doesn't like to give up on pots. Who bets turn?

SB ($390)
BB ($700)
Hero ($617)
CO ($451)
BTN ($517)

Dealt to Hero J

Hero raises to $14, fold, BTN calls $14, fold, fold

FLOP ($34) 2

Hero checks, BTN bets $20, Hero raises to $60, BTN calls $40

TURN ($154) 2

Hero checks, BTN checks

RIVER ($154) 2

Hero checks, BTN bets $70, Hero raises to $200

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griffey24

07-27-2010, 05:00 PM

#2 (permalink)

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hand 1 - why c/bomb river instead of betting river again, or even over-betting river?

hand 2 - I like the line and I would probably bet small on the river. If he's the type to continue with a lot of TT/JJ stuff on the turn, I'd bet bigger on the river.

hand 3 - If i checked flop, I'd probably c/c down and c/bomb riv.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

sauce123

07-27-2010, 06:11 PM

#3 (permalink)

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hand 1- this is ok if he is on the level where this always works and he always has no idea what to do if raised. it cant be too bad in moderation since your range beats his and stacks are good for you and he dutifully bet river.

hand 2- very std vbet, specially when you have nut hands in your range for protection

hand 3- id mostly bet flop, if i didnt im c/c down. c/r is pretty bad, i dont mind your turn check. i think best line with your hand on this board has got to be bet flop, bet any turn less than T, bet any river less than T if we bet turn, and check/call turn on bigger cards, c/r river.

I got more flava than fruitstripe gum

lancelott_

07-27-2010, 06:37 PM

#4 (permalink)

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sauce - in hand 2, what do you mean we have nut hands for protection? isn`t it vice versa, since we cant have AK, mb AQ, in our range because of the preflop? certainly we would play 22/33/88 that way as well, but..

sauce123

07-27-2010, 08:47 PM

#5 (permalink)

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22/33/88/54, + we have a lot of zero equity hands like missed FDs relative to the rare thin vbet A4, ATcc etc which makes CR bluffing really unattractive relative to c/c or c/f for villain. hence, when he CR we can put him on a very strong range, and if he for some reason doesnt have a really strong range, we can feel pretty secure that his bluff is not +ev against our range relative to other options. so we can b/f with our hand safely, and have it be more +ev for our hand and range than checking behind

I got more flava than fruitstripe gum

IowaSkinsFan

07-27-2010, 09:28 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Hand 1: I'd go for the turn c/r instead. As played is fine, depends how willing he is to make a big call.

Hand 2: Of course bet, I can think of a lot of hands he'd play this way that you are beating that could call.

Hand 3: C/c down seems better, cbet seems fine too. Its really goofy but I actually like the way you played it too.

Sauce: We could have some A2s or K2s in our range too.

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meeloche

07-28-2010, 04:55 AM

#7 (permalink)

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Posts: 2,131

1) This seems ok to me in moderation

2) Standard vb for me

3) I'd probably triple or c/c down, c/shoving river

pocketfours

07-28-2010, 05:27 AM

#8 (permalink)

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My question in hand two was really whether or not to call a c/r considering this is blind vs blind and this villain almost always bluffs when he doesn't have SD value. I think he will bet this flop and turn 100% with his air, so there's a lot of it in his range by the river. Maybe the fact that he checked the river discounts some of it though.

I would pretty much always play my flushdraws like this and I would always bet the river on this board when they missed (so of course I will bet Ax). That means I have a lot of combos of missed draws in my range. Looks like enough to make a bluff shove profitable for him, especially if I always fold Ax to a shove.

If we assume that he doesn't think we fold Ax then I suppose a fold should be good. But what if we replay this hand thinking that I am villain and Sauce is hero? Because I now know that he folds his thin value range to a shove, then he should probably change his strategy and bluffcatch if I c/r (with some frequency at least)?

Without discounting preflop 3bets, I counted 24 missed draw combos and 14 combos of very strong hands 22/33/88/54s/K2s/A2s (I don't flat 54o against a good TAG). At least 20 combos of Ax in my range by the river.

What I'm saying is that to me this doesn't look like a very trivial b/f 100% when viewed from a theoretical standpoint.

Another question to ask is do we want to b/c, b/f or c/r AK here as villain?

sauce123

07-28-2010, 05:01 PM

#9 (permalink)

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p4s- i would pretty much never bluff my missed draws 100% here

I got more flava than fruitstripe gum

pocketfours

07-28-2010, 06:22 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Seems to me like he will c/f this river a lot, with so much air in his range. We can even make a very small bet here to have him c/f J-K high. Another question is do we flat the turn with a T high flushdraw...

griffey24

07-28-2010, 10:24 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Posts: 4,611

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketfours

I feel like this is almost the opposite of what you're saying, but I don't flat low FD's on this board, because once the A falls I don't think I can credibly bluff the river if he checks.

If anything, I'd imagine people will think they can't bet TT-KK stuff again on the river for value again, but can potentially c/c?

Also our turn calling range has tons of mid-pairs on it, that will check behind this river. So the amount of value hands that will be betting this river seems pretty small compared to the amount of hands that might call this turn (ie: bad spot to bluff river?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

sauce123

07-28-2010, 10:50 PM

#12 (permalink)

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id raise the turn with a ten high FD a fair amnt, like 2.6x his bet

I got more flava than fruitstripe gum

pocketfours

07-29-2010, 03:16 AM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by griffey24

Interesting. I fold my midpairs on the turn against a TAG if I don't 3bet them pre or raise the flop, so they really aren't in my range by the river.

On the other hand I have a lot of combos of AQ/AJ/AT/A4/A5/Axcc in my range and I think c/c TT-KK is a pretty stationy play.

sk8r_daniel

07-30-2010, 03:02 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2006

Posts: 330

Ok.. so take my advice lightly..as I play 50nl. I haven't looked at responses yet:

Hand 1: It seems like a legit line to take with a flush or straight, especially if you are known to take c/r lines with good hands. I assume you are based on previous posts.

His range consists mostly of 1 pair hands...an A and he will likely fold. If your image is bad and bluffy I would not try this... and if villain is an impulsive caller vs. non standard lines than this is a c/f.

Otherwise I really like it.

Hand 2: Seems like a pretty standard value bet of 1/2pot. I think he has alot of Ax in his range that he checks to catch bluffs here. I would just be scared of getting c/r'd if the guy is really that bluff happy.

Hand 3: Bet turn...for balancing, simply because I continue alot when i c/r flops... maybe he will spazz.

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400nl: three hands

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