www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

400NL A-Qo

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

Vi-Zer0Skill

09-22-2007, 05:20 AM Post subject: 400NL A-Qo

#1 (permalink)

Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Nov 2006

Posts: 1,742

Villain is a competent TAG. Has been quite aggressive.

I think i should have check/folded the turn, but is river an easy check/fold?

Hero: ($426.20 in chips)
Villain: ($546.60 in chips)
4 other players

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero: [Qh As]
Hero: raises $12 to $16
Villain: calls $16
4 folds
*** FLOP *** [3h 2h 7c]
Hero: bets $28
Villain: calls $28
*** TURN *** [3h 2h 7c] [Ad]
Hero: checks
Villain: bets $68
Hero: calls $68
*** RIVER *** [3h 2h 7c Ad] [Qs]
Hero: checks
Villain: bets $268 (small overbet)
Hero: ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroters

Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

mixchange

09-22-2007, 05:29 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: San Francisco, CA

Posts: 1,665

I don't see how you aren't calling...seems like you set villain up to bluff and you have top 2. What is your question?

Vi-Zer0Skill

09-22-2007, 05:38 AM

#3 (permalink)

Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Nov 2006

Posts: 1,742

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixchange

I don't see how you aren't calling...seems like you set villain up to bluff and you have top 2. What is your question?

Question: "is river an easy check/fold?"

Fact: top two pair is as good as A-4 here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroters

Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools

mixchange

09-22-2007, 06:15 AM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: San Francisco, CA

Posts: 1,665

Quote:

Fact: top two pair is as good as A-4 here.

FACT: Your fact is not a fact.

|~|ypermegachi

09-22-2007, 06:18 AM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: emo-kid

Posts: 3,580

i'm confused.

bet turn. bet river. as played call.

zook

09-22-2007, 06:31 AM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 3,676

I bet this turn, but I don't mind a c/r either, don't like the c/c unless you know he'll bluff a blank river. As played I call the river overbet.

Vi-Zer0Skill

09-22-2007, 06:49 AM

#7 (permalink)

Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Nov 2006

Posts: 1,742

Okay, it is certainly possible that i just am stupid and am not thinking this through correctly. Here's what i was thinking:

Villain's range on...

the flop
8-8 - 10-10
Flush draw/4-5
occasionally a set

the turn
Flush draw
Flush draw with Ah
straight
occasionally a set

the river
missed flush
straight
set

mixchange i don't see villain having any two pair at any point in this hand. What two pair hands do you think he could have?

If the river bet wasn't an overbet i would have called.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroters

Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools

griffey24

09-22-2007, 06:53 AM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixchange

I don't see how you aren't calling...seems like you set villain up to bluff and you have top 2. What is your question?

Question: "is river an easy check/fold?"

Fact: top two pair is as good as A-4 here.

seriously? and here my first instinct was to c/r this river.. hmmm

I really don't see how we can fold here. I would have expected a set to raise this flop, and as played we let villain bluff a possible missed FD on two streets.

I guess villain could have 45, so a check call is better than a c/r, but i don't see how we can fold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

Vi-Zer0Skill

09-22-2007, 06:53 AM

#9 (permalink)

Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Nov 2006

Posts: 1,742

i think bet/fold the turn is the best line, since i am not getting any more value out of mid pairs by checking anyways.

And i charge draws, and make the hand easier to play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroters

Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools

Numbr2intheWorld

09-22-2007, 09:16 AM

#10 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Aug 2006

Posts: 3,561

Numbr2intheWorld will become famous soon enough

you're still beating A2, A3, and A7...

Check out my blog http://suited-aces.com

snowbird4life

09-22-2007, 12:42 PM

#11 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Mar 2007

Posts: 246

I dont see how you can fold this river. As played, i call.

Vi-Zer0Skill

09-22-2007, 06:40 PM

#12 (permalink)

Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Nov 2006

Posts: 1,742

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

you're still beating A2, A3, and A7...

i don't think a TAG calls my UTG open with A-x without someone else having called in front of him.

Ah Qh is the only possible two pair combination that i could see villain holding here, but even then i think he might 3bet preflop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroters

Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools

Miffed22001

09-22-2007, 07:50 PM

#13 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

i think we need to know about how villain plays a pair and a set etc before we can consider how we should play the turn and river.
I think calling here is bad because our hand is so clear and hes overbetting despite our line.

Halv

09-22-2007, 08:47 PM

#14 (permalink)

pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: No hindsight for the blind.

Posts: 1,842

How is our hand so clear? I get to the river like this with KK- alot against aggro villains, and sometimes with draws. I'm not folding this hand.

First music vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFerARdGW04
Free stream of different song here: http://www.nrk.no/urort/artist/wellfear ('Lytt'/play button on right side)

Miffed22001

09-22-2007, 11:23 PM

#15 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

Quote:

Originally Posted by HalvSame

How is our hand so clear? I get to the river like this with KK- alot against aggro villains, and sometimes with draws. I'm not folding this hand.

im beginning to reconsider now you mention it.
Why did we not bet turn fwiw. surely we have to follow through here to be able to fire enough two barrels?

Vi-Zer0Skill

09-23-2007, 05:07 AM

#16 (permalink)

Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Nov 2006

Posts: 1,742

i still think my hand is essentially a bluff catcher. If anyone can give a well reasoned explanation for how villain could be holding A-2/A-3/A-7/A-Q, i will certainly stand corrected. I will concede that Ah-Qh is a possibility, but even then i think villain would tend to 3bet preflop.

i agree with everyone that says i should have bet the turn. This will be my default play in the future, as it makes the hand much easier to play and i charge draws etc.

What do you guys think an overbet generally means, seriously? When i see an overbet, i generally assume that it's the nuts or a near nut hand. Is this less often the case as you move up in limits?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroters

Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools

Genitruc

09-23-2007, 06:42 PM

#17 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 4,463

Genitruc is an unknown quantity at this point

i haven't folded this in probably a year or so

as played i d be fistpumping as I check raised the river AI

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

Genitruc

09-23-2007, 06:45 PM

#18 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 4,463

also he could be bluffing!

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

Renton

09-24-2007, 01:41 AM

#19 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,992

consider betting turn at least with some frequency

as played i like the c/c c/c line on turn and river. You obviously must call the river. You have an unlikely big hand vs an aggressive player when most of the draws bricked, in a spot where he could very easily have turned a flopped overpair into a bluff.

Vi-Zer0Skill

09-24-2007, 02:11 AM

#20 (permalink)

Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Nov 2006

Posts: 1,742

Okay, since its literally unanimous that i should be calling this river bet, i assume no one is too concerned about the overbet by this opponent.

I guess checking the turn to induce a bluff is okay against an aggressive opponent, but in general i think bet/folding the turn is best. Particulary because, like miffed said, i would probably fire the turn with a hand like Q-J.

By check/raising the turn, i think we allow this aggressive villain to let go of a drawing hand so i think i like check/calling the turn and check/calling a non heart river.

I learned a ton from everyones comments in this thread, which is worth (in the long run) the embarrassment in admitting that i actually folded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroters

Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools

sauce123

09-24-2007, 04:25 AM

#21 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Dizzy

Posts: 2,405

y isnt A3 A2 A7 a big part of his range?

I got more flava than fruitstripe gum

Halv

09-24-2007, 05:31 AM

#22 (permalink)

pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: No hindsight for the blind.

Posts: 1,842

I don't see tags calling A-rag UTG+1 very often at all.

First music vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFerARdGW04
Free stream of different song here: http://www.nrk.no/urort/artist/wellfear ('Lytt'/play button on right side)

Dislexsik

09-24-2007, 10:55 AM

#23 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: On the grind

Posts: 832

Why would he want to overbet this river?Seems more like a busted draw.I would have betted the turn, and c/c river.I think betting the turn would make play this river more easy.

sauce123

09-24-2007, 01:06 PM

#24 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Dizzy

Posts: 2,405

this hand was also played pretty goofy by both parties.

its not a terrible fold for sure, but i think calling is better

I got more flava than fruitstripe gum

Latest Poker News
Bbickes	06-02-2012, 08:10 PM Merge Network 6.0 Looks to Retain Current Player Base
In an effort to perhaps keep players from moving to the new Revolution Network setup by the former Lock Poker, Merge Network has taken drastic steps to respond to their player base's requests to impro ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:44 AM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

Short-Handed NL Hold'em

400NL A-Qo

Play for FREE and practice your game at...