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Dislexsik
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04-06-2008, 10:59 AM
Post subject: 400NL AKs
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On the grind
Posts: 832
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Interesting hand against a very good tag. running about 20/17.
Do i bet the turn here again?If so, why?
Can i ever coldcall here preflop?
He percieves me as a solid straightforward tag capable of making moves now and then.He is aware that like example if i 3bet someone utg who isnt really loose, he knows i probably have a very strong hand.
http://www.pokerhand.org/?2376133
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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its a 3bet pot and u made tptk ... bet/bet/bet all in.
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Dislexsik
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On the grind
Posts: 832
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marshall28
its a 3bet pot and u made tptk ... bet/bet/bet all in.
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plz refrain from "its 3bet pot its 100% all in" without further explenation why.
ive made that mistake myself in the past....
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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sorry, youre right.
basically, i thin kthis turn is a must bet. The Ts put a ton of draws out there and gave hands that called u on the flop pr+gutshot outs. it's highly unlikely he's flatting this flop w/ a made hand stronger than yours as since u identify yourself as a tag, if he's thinking at all, AK must be a huge part of your ragne.
of course this begs the question about whether or not u r folding out everything u beat by betting the turn and getting everythign else to jam on u, but i actually think hands that pick up SD's will get it in w/ u, as well as weaker made hands.
the main reason i think betting the turn is so important
is because when u check behind u give a lot of hands hes flatting the flop w/ an opportunity to catch up, or let some kind of card that will kill your action fall. the pot is getting so big by this point that protecting your hand and/or taking down the pot now is much more important than trying to pot control it in order to get value on a later street -- or worse -- be forced to fold to a real scary card like u did in this situation.
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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wow i really hate the way i explained this above....
simplest answer is bet/bet/bet for an inherent reason. the pot is so big that the money in the middle is more important to win than bets on later streets. because villain knows this, he will be getting it in lighter as well.
then there's also the whole problem in regards to how extremely exploitable u will be if u dont take this to the felt.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Nah i check behind turn. I mean ideally we would like how light he is calling threebets preflop, but given what you've shown us its likely he has a pretty tight calling range. Therefore, there is very little value in a turn bet postflop and we have draw blockers anyways. It also unbalances our opponents river range. He's going to check most hands we have pure value against, and bet most of the hands we are behind.
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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1) yeah i bet the turn to get it in. the T likely only improves outs for him, it probably didnt make his hand better than yours. i doubt he is playing a set this passively on this drawy of a board.
2) definitely dont flat here.
on river this is an easy fold. even if he doesnt have a straight, he so easily couldve made two pair or flush or a million things.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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isf : im pretty sure villains calling range = much weaker than his raising range on the flop if he is the type of villain we perceive him to be?
and btw... no love in the PM's?
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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I bet, bet here.
Its a 3-bet pot, do you know how light he's calling 3-best OOP?
We're definitely ahead on this flop. I'd imagine a set of J's/KJ would c/bomb this flop given how drawy it is. The only hand that realistically caught up is AQ. KQ is top pair OESD and will stack off on turn, QQ is OESD and will possible stack on this turn. We also have equity to tie against a turned straight anyhow (not much, but some)
Also, there are sooo many crappy cards to come on the river.
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Halv
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04-06-2008, 07:26 PM
Post subject: Re: 400NL AKs
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#10 (permalink)
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dislexsik
He is aware that like example if i 3bet someone utg who isnt really loose, he knows i probably have a very strong hand.
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This right here is a big problem for me as well. Is a polarized 3-betting range IP a solution (because he's folding most of is mid-strength hands to a 3-bet)?
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Dislexsik
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On the grind
Posts: 832
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He raises utg + he calls a 3bet from me so he is OOP, so i put his range really tight, probably 99+AQ+.
The problem on the turn is, what hands can i get value from?Only hands so far is QQ, and he not laying down the same hand as me, and both those hands were gonna get 4bet preflop.He is the kind of player that 4bets those hands and coldcalls KK+ in those spots.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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i dont like folding hands, and betting turn makes it easier not to. i really dont find greater value in checking turn anyways; if he calls 3bets loose enough then charge him for having a queen often enough
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marshall28
and btw... no love in the PM's?
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he hates PMs
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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from what I've heard he gets pms alot (unlike other who's pms frequency is "rarely, if ever")
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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yea but my PMs are so awesome they're masturbatory
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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i would cold call pre some % of the time so you can credibly raise A hi flops in later hands vs him
sometimes I'd check behind on the flop and look to stack off passively in this spot vs an aggro but your line prob worked out well.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marshall28
and btw... no love in the PM's?
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he hates PMs |
i actually just read through a lot of his blog and wanted to give him props for the effort...u know .. respect ... dude didnt even say "thanks" lol ....
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