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4-bet Pot vs Decent villain with QQ

  
 
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Genitruc
Old 03-10-2008, 05:42 PM     Post subject: 4-bet Pot vs Decent villain with QQ #1 (permalink)  
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 Villain is a lagg and seems decent (31/25/4 over a medium sample). I’ve 3-bet him 2 or 3 times in the past couple orbits and he's folded everytime so far. I’m expecting him to 4-bet bluff me soon.

How does the line look?

Game #5731434623: Hold'em NL ($0.50/$1) - 2008/03/10 - 16:03:11 (UK)
Table "Skeptics" Seat 6 is the button.
Seat 1: almtom2 ($192.35 in chips)
Seat 2: freetramp ($84.10 in chips)
Seat 3: cmonemakr ($92 in chips)
Seat 4: lammemik ($109.99 in chips)
Seat 5: SunTzu ($227.55 in chips)
Seat 6: HERO ($159.35 in chips)
almtom2: posts small blind $0.50
freetramp: posts big blind $1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to HERO
cmonemakr: folds
lammemik: folds
SunTzu: raises to $3.50
HERO: raises to $12
almtom2: folds
freetramp: folds
SunTzu: raises to $38.50
HERO: calls $26.50
----- FLOP -----
SunTzu: bets $56
HERO: calls $56
----- TURN -----

SunTzu: checks
HERO: bets $64.85 and is all-in
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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bode
Old 03-10-2008, 06:15 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 i like it with that turn card. what are you doing on a blank turn?
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will641
Old 03-10-2008, 07:24 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bode
i like it with that turn card. what are you doing on a blank turn?
this is my problem as well. surely you werent planning on folding after putting in almost 2/3 your stack right?
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Warpe
Old 03-10-2008, 07:36 PM     Post subject: Re: 4-bet Pot vs Decent villain with QQ #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genitruc
I’m expecting him to 4-bet bluff me soon.
good thing, 'cause that's all we beat.

if we think he's bluffing why don't we just shove flop? what're we doing if he fires on the turn?



 
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Genitruc
Old 03-11-2008, 01:39 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 pretty sure he s never ever ever bluffing the turn so believe it or not I can fold if it blanks and he shoves
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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bode
Old 03-11-2008, 02:59 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genitruc
pretty sure he s never ever ever bluffing the turn so believe it or not I can fold if it blanks and he shoves
should have said this in the OP. shove seems perfect then here right?
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sauce123
Old 03-11-2008, 03:03 AM #7 (permalink)  
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noooooooooooooo check turn cmooon
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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Genitruc
Old 03-11-2008, 03:35 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
noooooooooooooo check turn cmooon
wtf since when r u good at poker
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Genitruc
Old 03-11-2008, 03:42 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 btw sauce maybe this is 9 levels too many

I'm guessing u said check turn cuz lots of times I have the best hand and I'm never getting called by worse. Also, you probably figure there's no need to protect my hand since he never has a big draw (since 99% of villains will shove a big draw on this turn).

but I think villain will think I always shove this turn after slowplaying (lol) my monster on the flop (gotta protect!)... so I'm bluffing I think?

if he thought I was thinking 17 levels deep, he'd realize that I know that he can never have a big draw (since with this much left he's always just shoving it in on this turn) so I should therefore be less worried about protecting my hand (since if I'm ahead there's almost no card that can hurt my hand)


the benefit of my line though (I hope!) is getting him to fold AK (what does he beat???). he's always shoving KQ on the turn and I'm not getting paid on the river anyways...
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Irisheyes
Old 03-11-2008, 05:33 AM #10 (permalink)  
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He turn folds AK roughly 0% of the time imo.
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sauce123
Old 03-11-2008, 06:36 AM #11 (permalink)  
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sry gen thought u were deeper

i mean, judging from timing/game flow u need to basically realized whether ur all in preflop or not-basically unless exactly an ace falls.
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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Genitruc
Old 03-11-2008, 12:44 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 btw with the amount of bb's already commited by villain do you guys see any point in 5-betting pre 150bb's deep if I think villain is 4-bet bluffing a decent % of the time?

hmm Irish I agree it would be surprising for most typical taggs to fold AK in this spot.... I'm just not sure what he could put me on that he beats
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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griffey24
Old 03-11-2008, 01:27 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
noooooooooooooo check turn cmooon
I agree with this.

I mean, you've called pre and now this disaster flop where AK/KQ/JJ are all now also ahead of you. So you definitely think he's on some sort of air to call the flop, or you're behind.

I don't see any value in this bet at all. Check behind and call all rivers is better than shoving here. There are like no scare cards for you, since if he has Ax he's drawing to like no outs since an A is a good card for us even.

The only worse hand I can see calling here is potentially QJ, which is so unlikely given your hand and given PF.

Check and induce his river bluff!
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Pelion
Old 03-11-2008, 01:47 PM #14 (permalink)  
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why not fold flop? what does he 4bet that doesnt ruin us on that flop?

The turn is even more so. Hes not folding anything and he would have to have AJ or worse for us to be ahead. Thats just incredibly unrealistic.
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Genitruc
Old 03-11-2008, 04:35 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 i guess i m just insane for thinking that he folds ak here?
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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sauce123
Old 03-11-2008, 05:33 PM #16 (permalink)  
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yes, completely
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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griffey24
Old 03-11-2008, 07:31 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genitruc
i guess i m just insane for thinking that he folds ak here?
If he has AK, he's getting 3:1 in a 4-bet pot.

really don't think he's folding, especially since turn potentially gave him extra outs if he's behind.
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Genitruc
Old 03-11-2008, 10:15 PM #18 (permalink)  
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 i wonder what he timed out with and folded

maybe he was just hollywooding I dunno
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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Pelion
Old 03-11-2008, 11:44 PM #19 (permalink)  
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wow.

doorbell fold obviously
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
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meeloche
Old 03-12-2008, 12:02 AM #20 (permalink)  
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 This player should be capable of 4 bet bluffing. He just might not be good enough to realize that this isn't a good board to be c betting in a 4 bet pot.



 
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nutsinho
Old 03-12-2008, 02:23 AM #21 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meeloche
This player should be capable of 4 bet bluffing. He just might not be good enough to realize that this isn't a good board to be c betting in a 4 bet pot.
its not that bad because hero should be folding qq-
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Genitruc
Old 03-12-2008, 02:26 AM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho
Quote:
Originally Posted by meeloche
This player should be capable of 4 bet bluffing. He just might not be good enough to realize that this isn't a good board to be c betting in a 4 bet pot.
its not that bad because hero should be folding qq-
ya that s what i was thinking... figured he d c bet this flop with close to 100% of his range, except maybe QQ (even that might be a c bet a decent % of the time)
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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