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minSim
Old 06-17-2008, 05:37 PM     Post subject: 4 50NL hands #1 (permalink)  
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Yesterday I played only half the number of tables for like half an hour to focus better on interesting decisions and trying to learn from them. I liked it a lot and definately recommend doing it from time to time.

Here are some hands where I wasn't sure about my decision, although maybe standard to others.

I had HUD problems on the tables the first 3 hands are from, so I don't have any stats on them, nor any reads.
The 4th hands it's included.

------------------
HAND #1
------------------
Honoustly I wasn't sure about any postflop street play here.

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

CO: $49.25
BTN: $59.85
SB: $63
Hero (BB): $50
UTG: $32.70
MP: $63.70

Pre-Flop: J Q dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG calls $0.50, MP raises to $2.50, CO folds, BTN calls $2.50, SB calls $2.25, Hero calls $2, UTG folds

Flop: ($10.50) 6 2 2 (4 Players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks, BTN bets $6.50, SB folds, Hero calls $6.50, MP folds

Turn: ($23.50) 8 (2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($23.50) 4 (2 Players)
Hero checks

------------------
HAND #2
------------------
I'm not sure wether to 2nd barrel or not. It's not a great board/turn card but I have some equity as well.
Also as played can I bet river? If so, how much?

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

CO: $24.25
Hero (BTN): $50
SB: $107.65
BB: $191.55
UTG: $51.85
MP: $50

Pre-Flop: T 8 dealt to Hero (BTN)
3 folds, Hero raises to $2, SB folds, BB calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.25) 7 6 2 (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets $3, BB calls $3

Turn: ($10.25) 3 (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($10.25) A (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero ...

------------------
HAND #3
------------------
Flop I'm trying to c/r.
With villain checking behind I should lead turn like always shouldn't I?

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BTN: $49.25
SB: $50.25
Hero (BB): $54.75
UTG: $126.15
CO: $50

Pre-Flop: 9 9 dealt to Hero (BB)
2 folds, BTN raises to $1.50, SB folds, Hero calls $1

Flop: ($3.25) Q 7 9 (2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($3.25) 2 (2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $1, Hero raises to $4, BTN calls $3

River: ($11.25) Q (2 Players)
Hero bets $9

------------------
HAND #4
------------------
I had villain on 18/15/ind over 79 hands from the past. No reads though so probably not been in interesting pots with him.

I was wondering if raising this flop is an option at all.
As played what's my turn play?

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

MP: $41
CO: $51.25
Hero (BTN): $53.80
SB: $35.20
BB: $76.90
UTG: $108.55

Pre-Flop: J J dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG raises to $2, 2 folds, Hero calls $2, 2 folds

Flop: ($4.75) Q T Q (2 Players)
UTG bets $3, Hero calls $3

Turn: ($10.75) A (2 Players)
UTG bets $7.50, Hero ...
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minSim
Old 06-17-2008, 05:39 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Also on hand 2 I'm willing to bet some more rivers than the ones I hit if I 2nd barrel
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Viscount Vic
Old 06-17-2008, 06:35 PM #3 (permalink)  

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Hand one - I don't play hands that don't draw to nuts for a reason. On top of you possibly drawing to a lower flush, the board is paired. I really can't see anything you can beat if he plays back at you unless hes a huge donk.

Hand 2 - Yeah good as played, tempting to fire out a river bet but a good player will check raise you hard here on nothing.

Hand 3 - I'm calling him here no matter what he reraises, if hes got Q2, f him and if he slowplayed Q9 QQ on that board, he sucks and got lucky.

Hand 4 - fold

Of course, iv'e heard it's better to be more aggressive, so what do i know?
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freechus9
Old 06-17-2008, 07:42 PM #4 (permalink)  
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1 - Agreed. Drawing to a non-nut flush on a paired board is dangerous. Plus you're OOP, which gives you some reverse implied odds. I c/f this flop every time.

2 - Std, c/f river.

3 - Since you don't know anything about opp, you shouldn't check ever. Too many cards kill your hand, and we don't know if opp will bet. C/r only on a dry board against a known aggressive opponent.

4 - I like sometimes calling, sometimes raising. When we do call, the turn is a fold 100% of the time. If we raise, we muck to a 3-bet/further aggression. Our hand has showdown value but is very vulnerable.
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bikes
Old 06-17-2008, 07:46 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1. Fold flop
Hand 2. Check behind.
Hand 3. I'm snap shoving, or snap calling a shove
Hand 4. Calling or Raising is fine. As played Pitch it to his 2 barrel
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 06-17-2008, 08:19 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 1. fold preflop = no headache. as played id slightly overbet the river so i could easily fold if raised.
2. i wouldn't double barrel anyone on a blank without knowing something about how they think/play postflop. as played this is a great card to bluff on so id bet like $7.
3. because the board is so drawy on the flop i would generally lead my set there. once the flop checked through i would lead the turn, call a raise and check/fold a non pairing river. as played id argue a smaller river bet will encourage more Q-x hands to call and encourage flushes to raise. $9 is a fine bet size but im not certain it's optimal.
4. raise to $8/fold the flop makes this hand much easier to play. as played fold the turn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
 
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minSim
Old 06-18-2008, 05:19 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Hand 1: I agree folding preflop makes my decision easy....but c'mon Vi, at this level, are you really folding this 4way, possibly 5way, pot with pretty good relative position?

Are you all sure about the flop fold? BTN was the first caller of MP's open preflop. He could easily be betting any PP or 6 or maybe even air with everyone checking.
His bet is pretty small as well, so I'm getting decent odds. Yes I have some RIO, but I'm not that bad against his range if you assume it's decently wide which I think it is.
Not to be rude, but I'm not confinced of a flop fold yet.

Also Vi, don't you think a river overbet is too obvious as a valuebet, so it'll only get called/raised by better?


Hand 2: Thanks for the comments.

Hand 3: I definately agree on leading flop. As played, Vi, a turn lead is very standard for you? (I think it should be, but can't really get the 'why' answer straight in my head to make this an auto-bet).
There might be something into a smaller river bet indeed.

Hand 4: I was definately considering raising flop. But it seems like a weak play in some way... and with AK shoving over a decent amount of raise/folding feels weird against an UTG range.
Vi, is it villains AF that makes you want to r/f?
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Fnord
Old 06-18-2008, 05:27 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
1. fold preflop = no headache.
This is pretty absurdly weak/tight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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mcatdog
Old 06-18-2008, 05:49 PM     Post subject: Re: 4 50NL hands #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minSim
Yesterday I played only half the number of tables for like half an hour to focus better on interesting decisions and trying to learn from them. I liked it a lot and definately recommend doing it from time to time.

...

I had HUD problems on the tables the first 3 hands are from, so I don't have any stats on them, nor any reads.
Isn't the whole point of playing fewer tables so that you can get some more detailed reads independent of your HUD? You're probably still playing too many tables if you literally have no reads on these guys.

Hand 1: Just bet $15, also LOL at folding preflop or on the flop
Hand 2: If you were paying attention to the table then you'd know whether this guy likes to make hero calls and then you'd know what to do here, but since you weren't it's basically a guessing game
Hand 3: Yeah just bet, also bet the flop if this villain is the type to check behind draw-heavy boards such as this one, but if he's an auto-bettor then C/R is fine
Hand 4: Played fine now fold, also raising the flop sucks a lot against good players
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 06-18-2008, 05:50 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minSim
Hand 1: I agree folding preflop makes my decision easy....but c'mon Vi, at this level, are you really folding this 4way, possibly 5way, pot with pretty good relative position?

Also Vi, don't you think a river overbet is too obvious as a valuebet, so it'll only get called/raised by better?

Hand 3: I definately agree on leading flop. As played, Vi, a turn lead is very standard for you? (I think it should be, but can't really get the 'why' answer straight in my head to make this an auto-bet).
There might be something into a smaller river bet indeed.

Hand 4: I was definately considering raising flop. But it seems like a weak play in some way... and with AK shoving over a decent amount of raise/folding feels weird against an UTG range.
Vi, is it villains AF that makes you want to r/f?

lol ill elaborate on why i like a fold preflop

our position isn't very good, as we are OOP to two of the three other players in the pot
we shouldn't be playing our hand hoping to flop TP and get paid, im confident the RIO from this hand would make it -EV. in this situation we are playing a drawing hand, and being OOP makes playing a drawing hand much less profitable since it's tougher to get action when you lead into 4 ppl after calling preflop.



i like a small overbet because a smaller flush is still unlikely to fold on the river, and when we get raised it is always by a better hand.

im leading the turn once the flop checks through here because im looking to start building a pot with my set and i don't want my opponent to see any more cards cheaply.


didn't take villains AF into consideration, but im raising because we usually have to fold to a turn bet - or end up in a tough spot - and by raising we have the opportunity to win the pot on the flop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
 
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Fnord
Old 06-18-2008, 05:58 PM     Post subject: Re: 4 50NL hands #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
LOL at folding preflop or on the flop
....and this man plays a lot tighter than me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 06-18-2008, 05:59 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 you and mcat may well be right, im certainly not as accomplished a poker player as either of you. im looking for a HH that i posted a few months ago that will hopefully strengthen my case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
 
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 06-18-2008, 06:12 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...nl-t61355.html

this was the post that i had in mind. the 5th hand posted is the one i feel is conceptually similar to this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
 
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Fnord
Old 06-18-2008, 06:13 PM #14 (permalink)  
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5-way pots almost never happen when people are playing Hold'em well. When people are playing bad, I want to see flops in marginal spots to be in a position to profit from mistakes later in the hand.

Sometimes I take this concept a bit too far by over-limping offsuit crap behind my favorite fish, however it remains a pillar of my approach to beating the game.

edit: QJs will make much stronger hands than 59s, including a two pair that's much more likely to hold up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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minSim
Old 06-18-2008, 09:20 PM     Post subject: Re: 4 50NL hands #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
Quote:
Originally Posted by minSim
Yesterday I played only half the number of tables for like half an hour to focus better on interesting decisions and trying to learn from them. I liked it a lot and definately recommend doing it from time to time.

...

I had HUD problems on the tables the first 3 hands are from, so I don't have any stats on them, nor any reads.
Isn't the whole point of playing fewer tables so that you can get some more detailed reads independent of your HUD? You're probably still playing too many tables if you literally have no reads on these guys.
That is one of more possible reasons to play fewer tables I guess, it wasn't mine yesterday though....although it might be an unintended consequence.

But I was still figuring out why my HUD wasn't working so wasn't really paying much attention, sorry.
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