www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

3bet pots, bluffs and exploiting regs

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

bspahn

07-20-2009, 05:33 AM Post subject: 3bet pots, bluffs and exploiting regs

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 851

people got off on a tangent in another thread so i figured id make this separate.

i'm really interested in discussing more about 3bet pots, bluffing and exploiting regs based on their stats/tendencies.

iopq said 3bet spots are easy, maybe a lot of you do, they seem difficult to me. i need to improve on them so I hope this post will help.

i'm also very interested in 5b bluffs, it's something I practically never do. i obviously do some floating, bluffing, a bit of repping, some 3 and 4bet bluffing but really not the 5b pre

i understand doing things for value, but when and how do we want to exploit regs by using things like 5bet bluffs, what situations do we want to do it and with what hands? so far i've seen arguments for Axs and small pp (22-55) mentioned.

i dont know what the easiest way to go about developing this thread but maybe I'll throw out a couple of examples.
---------

1) an aggro reg opens BTN, say he's 23/20, we know he's wide, he has fold to 3bet 50% and he has 4bet 5%
--> how do we exploit this reg?

2) an aggro reg 3bets us SB vs BTN, he's 23/20 and has 3bet 9%, he has fold to 4bet 50%
--> how do we exploit this reg?

3) a guy like me opens BTN, say he's 20/16, we are in SB/BB, he has fold to 3bet 70% and 4bets 3%
--> how to we exploit this reg?

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

07-21-2009, 12:51 AM

#2 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

1) we would want to know his post-flop tendencies
2) if his overall 3b is 9% his SB vs. BU 3b is probably 12% or so
fold to 4b of 50% is huge
we can 4b/call hands like 99+,AQ+
we can 4b/fold hands like Axo or random crap if we feel that it's the time to make a move
3) just 3b ATC and c/f some flops (other than Kxx and Axx and flops we hit)

bspahn

07-21-2009, 05:51 AM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 851

whats ATC?

the reason i'm bringing this up is because I'm trying to figure this 3b stuff out more recently and accepting the fact that if i want to become more profitable I have to learn to exploit regs and not just stay away from them and concentrate on the fish - which is what i've been doing for years.

i'd also like more information on 5bet bluff shoving people. I would assume you are doing this vs opp who have very high 4bet, what would you say is a very high 4bet % ? greater than 4, or 5%?

i know for 3bets people who are greater than 8% or so is quite high.

recently there's one guy at my site who's pretty relentless in 3betting, in fact he has 12% 3bet, his fold to 3bet is high and fold to 4bet is high. do you just 4bet junk frequently and 4bet/call with 99+/AQs+ vs this villain?

Marshall28

07-21-2009, 06:12 AM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 1,198

Didn't I address all this stuff like less than a month ago ???

bspahn

07-21-2009, 06:30 AM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 851

did you address 5bets and bluffing with them?

Marshall28

07-21-2009, 07:01 AM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 1,198

If you don't understand why you shouldn't ever have a reason to 5bet bluff, you didn't understand the purpose behind it as a whole.

If you are 3betting expecting a 4bet, you shouldn't be 3betting a hand you can't 5bet shove---> meaning those hands you 3bet should be decent for 5bet semi bluffing such as suited aces and small pairs.

bspahn

07-21-2009, 02:29 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 851

does HEM have a "fold to 5bet" of some kind?

we could also reduce variance by just not 3betting small pairs and suited aces against an opp who seems to like 4betting? or is that bad because we're not polarizing our 5bet shoving range?

how much does someone need to be 4betting for us to want to ever 5bet semibluff like you mention? what's a really high 4bet percentage? > 4% ? 5% ? from what i'm seeing most players are 4betting anywhere from 1-3% ...

07-21-2009, 03:46 PM

#8 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by bspahn

any kind of 4b number will converge over like thousands of hands

I don't like "reducing variance", I like EVs
Just because the guy likes 4bing, doesn't mean we should 3b him light
At 100NL people sometimes overadjust and start 4b bluffing too much and calling it off with like the same range, say JJ+,AK
that range is 3% of hands so if you are 3bing 10% and he's 4b you a few times he's definitely doing it light because you just don't get aces every time

but 5b bluffing is actually SUPER profitable because your suited aces and pairs have over 30% equity vs. his range, you win like 25BB when he folds and you lose 25BB when he calls (you put in 90BB into a pot of 200BB and win 65BB on average) so you need him to fold only half of the time

this is because after 4bing he has such good odds to call it off
but when he has air he can't call a shove because he has just slightly below the correct pot odds
he needs 37.5% equity to call, so he can't call with like A6o even if you bluff him some of the time because he is beyond crushed when you have a hand (and you sometimes shove A7s as a bluff!)

but the people who do catch on to this will start 4b/calling lighter, say TT+,AQ+ which will own your soul if you keep shoving it in light too often

Parasurama

07-21-2009, 04:00 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: DMT

Posts: 820

ATC=any two cards

and iopq has asked more questions about 3betting than any human alive so realize that it doesn't necessarily have to be easy for you

07-21-2009, 04:16 PM

#10 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parasurama

ATC=any two cards

and iopq has asked more questions about 3betting than any human alive so realize that it doesn't necessarily have to be easy for you

that's right, 3b spots are easy because I talked every day about them in IRC

why aren't YOU talking every day about them in IRC, bspahn

bspahn

07-21-2009, 05:11 PM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 851

because i'm not 16 and living with my parents?

Latest Poker News
Bbickes	06-02-2012, 08:10 PM Merge Network 6.0 Looks to Retain Current Player Base
In an effort to perhaps keep players from moving to the new Revolution Network setup by the former Lock Poker, Merge Network has taken drastic steps to respond to their player base's requests to impro ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:09 AM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

Short-Handed NL Hold'em

3bet pots, bluffs and exploiting regs

Play for FREE and practice your game at...