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Irisheyes
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03-19-2010, 11:15 AM
Post subject: 3bet pot flop float
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Villain 3bets probably 9-10% from this position vs me. Is aggressive and decent. No history though.
Anybody any thoughts on this?
No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
saw flop
Button ($277.59)
SB ($327.80)
BB ($272.40)
UTG ($128.55)
Hero (MP) ($200)
CO ($45.60)
Preflop: Hero is MP with K , Q
1 fold, Hero bets $6, 2 folds, SB raises $19, 1 fold, Hero calls $14
Flop: ($42) 8 , 4, 2 (2 players)
SB bets $28, Hero calls $28
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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I would never fold here.
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RugbyDonk
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Two Pair
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 26
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Board: 4d 2s 8c
Dead:
equity
Hand 0: 30.587% { KdQd }
Hand 1: 69.413% { 88+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, AJo+, KQo }
Thats if his 10% range is balanced... same equity its if its polarized too
equity
Hand 0: 30.046% { KdQd }
Hand 1: 69.954% { TT+, 66-22, AQs+, KQs, J9s, T8s, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 65s, 54s, AKo }
If you float to make him fold on the turn then what better hands are you folding?
AJ+, maybe 99-TT but he likely calls a turn bet with those. If he's polarized then your not folding much better at all.
Your call becomes more for pot odds then anything else. so if you hit a K or Q you gotta be ready to get it in which is not too appealing
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Rugby, I think those ranges aren't very practical.
I would use something like: JJ+,AJs+,A3s-A2s,KQs,97s,86s+,75s+,64s+,54s,AJo+,KQo for 9,7%.
But that difference in ranges doesn't matter that much actually, what does is not going with bare pot equity here as all the Ax hands in villains range give him a ton of equity.
With the range above, villain has A high or K high well over 50%, so as long as he isn't super aggressive on non A/K/Q turns, we can take the pot away on the turn a large % of the time.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I'd raise the flop instead of call.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I'd raise the flop instead of call.
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I prefer a call to a raise, IP.
OOP, I'm c/r this flop 95% of the time with this hand.
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
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humanfugitive
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 147
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if your raise is flatted are you checking behind IP and c/f oop on non AKQ turns?
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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I think calling IP is fine tho you can raise, my leak here would be the turn since if i fold i feel like im burning money.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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tstrout
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 68
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If you call, you're only doing so to make a king high bluff on the turn. Only card you can actually like (besides a diamond) is a queen, not a king based on the 3-bet preflop. You are taking a huge risk floating here. Anyone familiar with floating knows how to counteract it. You're going to get double barreled on the turn (or check-raised if it was me), and be forced to fold. Obviously you don't hold a premium hand based upon how you played pre-flop, and your opponent knows it. If he actually 3-bet with the goods (or even a weird speculative hand) you're dead meat. So give up your 19 and move on. Poker is not about winning pots, it's about winning money. This pot is over.
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Luke999
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: England
Posts: 238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tstrout
If you call, you're only doing so to make a king high bluff on the turn. Only card you can actually like (besides a diamond) is a queen, not a king based on the 3-bet preflop. You are taking a huge risk floating here. Anyone familiar with floating knows how to counteract it. You're going to get double barreled on the turn (or check-raised if it was me), and be forced to fold. Obviously you don't hold a premium hand based upon how you played pre-flop, and your opponent knows it. If he actually 3-bet with the goods (or even a weird speculative hand) you're dead meat. So give up your 19 and move on. Poker is not about winning pots, it's about winning money. This pot is over.
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This.
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pantherhound
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Love me for a season
Posts: 492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tstrout
If you call, you're only doing so to make a king high bluff on the turn. Only card you can actually like (besides a diamond) is a queen, not a king based on the 3-bet preflop. You are taking a huge risk floating here. Anyone familiar with floating knows how to counteract it. You're going to get double barreled on the turn (or check-raised if it was me), and be forced to fold. Obviously you don't hold a premium hand based upon how you played pre-flop, and your opponent knows it. If he actually 3-bet with the goods (or even a weird speculative hand) you're dead meat. So give up your 19 and move on. Poker is not about winning pots, it's about winning money. This pot is over.
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Brutal post! I hope y'all are taking notes...
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,605
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If we're raising the flop, what would be a good amount?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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Ravageur
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Official Montreal SwampRat
Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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A king turn is a great card for us because villain will rep it and it's not a scare card for him vs our perceived range. We can happily shove any K/Q/diamond on the turn as well as potentially get him to make some big river folds when the board runs out ugly. I prefer calling to raising...just seems like it allows us to fold and lose less if he barrels the turn big on a bad card for us (Ace, board pairing card etc) and it also seems more credible to me. If I raise here I expect to induce shoves from stuff like suited rag aces and overpairs so i'm usually only doing it for value on this kind of board.
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Family Cruise IMO
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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I default fold this pre... i thought that was the norm? 9% with a small sample means shit to me.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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i think its an okay as long as there is history to call here pre. seems to me he 3bet hero 9-10% in blinds vs MP.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbr2intheWorld
I default fold this pre... i thought that was the norm? 9% with a small sample means shit to me.
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If you fold KQs what do you call with? Assume he's really 3betting 9%.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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fold KQs pre wat?
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