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3bet/4bet theory

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bspahn

09-08-2008, 03:25 PM Post subject: 3bet/4bet theory

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 851

hey all,

wondering if on this site or other sites there are good articles on this as I've been trying to find them lately, it's such a huge part of the 1/2 game now that I know i'm missing out big time and getting beat up by regulars.

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dalecooper

09-08-2008, 04:26 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 3,107

I haven't read anything that boils it all down, but here are my thoughts from sparring with the better regs at 50 NL:

- Button vs. CO 3-betting is increasingly common, and as CO you need to start 4-betting a little lighter with certain kinds of hands, and flatting occasionally with others if you're comfortable playing OOP.

- Blind (either of them) vs. button 3-betting is the most common thing going - I know I do it a lot too - so you can adjust by either slightly tightening up your button raising range, introducing more 4-bets vs. TAggs in the blinds, or both. This usually turns into a gameflow thing: they fold to my first steal; they 3-bet the next one and I fold; they 3-bet me again a few orbits later and I 4-bet on a re-re-steal, and then THEY fold; they fold to my next steal because now they're waiting for a real hand to 3-bet, in hopes of me 4-betting again; etc. It often follows patterns and you can exploit it by paying attention to and trying to jump the pattern in your favor.

- Squeezing (blind vs. button and CO usually) is increasingly common but not QUITE as common as you might want to believe. I also 4-bet light in this spot, but not as light as I do in the previous two spots.

- Generally you should 3-bet and 4-bet more when you are out of position, and when you have a hand that doesn't play that well post-flop (e.g. any unsuited ace/big card combo, even including AK) and you should flat somewhat more with hands that do play well (big pairs, suited connectors, suited/connected big cards above all), but don't religiously do one or the other always. It can be a game flow or opponent-specific thing.

- A light 3-betting range (for blind vs. button, button vs. CO) is pretty damn light: AT+, KQ, KJ suited, maybe even QJ suited, pairs 77+, and the occasional nonsense. Vs. TAggy regs, a 3-bet in position vs. a CO raise is definitely +EV, and a blind 3-bet vs. someone who steals a lot on the button is just as profitable. I don't even get into the idea of 4-betting ranges because if I'm 4-betting specifically to counter someone I think is 3-betting light, I'm doing it with literally anything I would open with. Range doesn't come into it. I just want to send up a signal that says "you can't 3-bet me any time you want, you know." Once is usually good enough to last some orbits. And the next time they do 3-bet you, they probably have something.

Silly String

09-08-2008, 04:39 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: KC, MO

Posts: 1,434

Here let me hand you my recipe for baking my world famous, extremely profitable cookies.

. . .

I'm feeling generous though so here's what I've found: Vi-zeroskill had a good post going somewhere and Sauce123's guide to beating 6max dealt with a lot of 3betting. Other than that video training sites are probably best. Sadly though, I am not a member of any.

Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.

Stacks

09-08-2008, 06:51 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.

Posts: 2,608

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...tc-t74214.html

Make sure you read all the responses, as the first is simply my questions. I have also since got a better understanding of this concept and will elaborate on later to start some cnversation.

Stacks

09-09-2008, 04:14 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.

Posts: 2,608

So first off, I am not saying this as absolute fact. This is how I see things and am posting it not only to maybe help you (if I'm right), but to start discussion and possibly fix any problems with my logic. So here goes. Also disclaimer, I play FR so you may need to change some things and it might not work the same in 6m.

When deciding whether to 3b an opponent alot of factors must be accounted for. Depending on the villain, their position, the action, history, etc you would need to first form your A range. This will consist of all hands that you feel is profitable to 3b for value and call a 4b shove, or 5b shove with yourself. Therefore Range A would be your value range. And it isn't constant. Depending on the villian your Value range may be tigher or looser. This one is pretty self-explanatory, and for most people a value range is something like KK+.

Next, you would formulate your B Range. That is all hands you feel is profitable to call with against this particular villian. Small-mid pps, suited connectors, and whatever broadways etc. Just whatever hands you feel is profitable to play against this villian postflop.

Finally you would need to come up with a C Range. This would be all hands you feel aren't profitable to call with. Therefore, you put a select few of the best of these hands into your C Range and 3b as a bluff. That is you intend to fold to a 4b, or 5b bluff with. This range would be dependant on the villain as well. What range of hands they are betting, what hands they are continuing with etc.

IMO, hands such as JJ,QQ,AK,AQs generally fit into a B range. Reason being, at 100nl FR, I'm not generally happy about stacking off wiht them preflop. Which means I would 3b, then fold to 4bs with them. And obviously, I could just do that with any hand. So why do it with hands that have amazing value when calling? It doesn't make sense to turn those hands into bluffs. Therefore, I rarely do and usually just call with those hands.

And when determing what range to use when 3b bluffing. Spoonitnow wrote a great article on blockers, hand combinations that will play a part here. The best hands to 3b/4b/5b bluff with would be a hand that has blockers. This includes generally Axs hands. There are others at times, but it's probably more profitable to 3b bluff Axs than any other hand. Reason being if you have an A the chances of them having AA is cut in half, And the chance of them having AK is cut by 25%.

Also remember to adjust an individuals opening range based on their position, action, etc. Therefore, if a villain is opening a wide range, but only continuing with a narrow range then you can increase the range you 3b bluff with. Such as, most villains open a wider range in LP (such as CO), therefore you can probably 3b bluff them more from the BU. As they aren't gonna like calling a 3b oop. But beware of players with the ability to adjust because they will start to 4b you light, etc.

Really this can go on and on. But I'll stop here. Hope some of it helps. And either you get something out of this, or I get corrected and learn from this.

minSim

09-09-2008, 09:48 AM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Deventer

Posts: 1,512

I found this one about 4betting somewhere in my favorites;

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...89&an=0&page=4

It's a bit old, but a good read.

I still have the idea that 4betting light isn't such a big deal (although maybe it is at your stakes). Really, with a 2,5x betsize you don't have to be doing it very often to stop being exploited by light 3betters.

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