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3 questionable lines ($100nl)

  
 
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bode
Old 04-19-2007, 01:17 AM     Post subject: 3 questionable lines ($100nl) #1 (permalink)  
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 hand 1: villain is 55/25/6 over 50 hands. I havent really payed much attention to him, but he has bled off 3/4 of a buyin in a short amount of time.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP ($107.25)
Hero ($139.65)
SB ($38.40)
BB ($123.50)
UTG ($63.85)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, A.
1 fold, MP raises to $3.5, Hero raises to $12, 2 folds, MP calls $8.50.

Flop: ($25.50) K, T, 8 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $17, MP raises to $76.5, Hero ???


hand 2: UTG is 23.7/8.5/5 over ~200 hands. MP is 40/4/1.4 over 100 hands, and seems like a ture donk. He luckboxed a 50 bb pot against UTG a few hands earlier w/ a rivered 2 pair after he pushed middle pair on the flop vs UTG's QQ. Comments on preflop and flop would be nice. I 3-bet TT+/AQ+ in position and drop TT/AQo when OOP against some villains. Is the 3-bet good here w/ the cold caller? I would have to think the flop gave villian a straight or higher set alot here, but he is very aggro and will make moves.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP ($54.15)
Hero ($152.90)
SB ($96)
BB ($113.40)
UTG ($103.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T, T.
UTG raises to $3.5, MP calls $3.5, Hero raises to $15.5, 2 folds, UTG calls $15.50, MP folds.

Flop: ($33.50) J, Q, T (2 players)
UTG bets $26, Hero calls $26.

Turn: ($85.50) 4 (2 players)
UTG bets $62.25 (All-In), Hero ???


hand 3: SB is 44/13/2.5 over 120 hands. Is this too weak? With the Qd on the board, i thought he had the Adxd here a decent amount of the time. With 170bb's eff. stacks, i didnt really want to get AI here given the line he took or i would have bet more on the turn.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($171.15)
SB ($208.60)
BB ($65.90)
UTG ($100.40)
MP ($62.95)
CO ($99.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5, K.
MP calls $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $1, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($4) 3, K, 7 (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $4, SB raises to $10, BB folds, MP folds, Hero raises to $29, SB calls $19.

Turn: ($62) Q (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $39, SB calls $39.

River: ($140) T (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $140
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
 
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JL
Old 04-19-2007, 01:37 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 1) I dont fold TPTK against someone with those stats.

2) You can't fold a set in a 3bet pot. He could have AA, KK, AQ, maybe KQ/QJ.

3) Raise pre-flop.
Value bet river. Very rarely will someone check/raise river with the nuts.
Looks more like set/2pr and he will pay you off.
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Old 04-19-2007, 02:13 AM #3 (permalink)  
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hand 1: from the sounds of it, he's tilting. i stack off with him here. i put him more on a draw than a made hand.

hand 2: tough spot. AK, JJ, QQ all make a large % of his range. then again, KQ, AJ, KJ play the same, AA too. bleh, flip a coin.

hand 3: vbet the river. i doubt he's got the flush because of the flop CR. i bet around $80.
 
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phantom_lord
Old 04-19-2007, 03:44 AM #4 (permalink)  
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1. wouldn't fold aginst this guy, we have the redraw anyway...

2. this sucks, qq and ak and whatever make up a huge part of his range. probably call and hope the board pairs.

3. easy vbet
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Old 04-19-2007, 03:47 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1: lol
Hand 2: lol
Hand 3: lol

call, call, and push.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 04-19-2007, 03:48 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 oh and i don't threebet hand 2.
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 04-19-2007, 03:55 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 This post makes no sense.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 04-19-2007, 03:56 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 <<<<<<<<<<<
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 04-19-2007, 03:57 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 ok seriously though:

Hand 1: fold, it's obvious he has a set here

Hand 2: Fold. QQ, JJ, AK, I can't think of any hands he could possibly have.

Hand 3: Don't even bet the turn, hopefully he'll check it down.
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bigspenda73
Old 04-19-2007, 04:12 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massimo
ok seriously though:

Hand 1: fold, it's obvious he has a set here

Hand 2: Fold. QQ, JJ, AK, I can't think of any hands he could possibly have.

Hand 3: Don't even bet the turn, hopefully he'll check it down.
Seriously? Im not doubting you being serious.....but, yea, I am.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 04-19-2007, 04:16 AM #11 (permalink)  
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 he's joking.
Although Hand 2 you are beating AA/KK and not much else i think this is one of those u just have to realize u have a set u cant fold on this board.
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 04-19-2007, 04:32 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
he's joking.
thanks so much buddy.
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andy-akb
Old 04-19-2007, 04:41 AM #13 (permalink)  
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1) Against somebody this aggressive, I am calling this all day.

2) I dont think I like the reraise PF. While a 8.5 isnt going to be too positionally, they still are going to at least slightly adjust for being UTG and raise even less than they do in the other positions. Against somebody this tight, I just dont think that we are going to be ahead often and are basically looking for a set. That flop is incredibly draw heavy, I shove. Yea, it absolutely clobbered his range, but I doubt he is folding KK or AA here and against AK we have outs and all of those have more combinations than JJ or QQ.

3) Ehh, I dont like PF that much. I guess I might raise this randomly maybe 10% of the time, but this is a standard fold I would imagine and I dont really like limping behind. As played, I dont really like the 3bet all that much namely because this is a limped pot and while we have a lot of outs we still shouldnt want to go too crazy here. I call the flop raise and then bet turn. As played, I really dont think we can just check behind here. Is Axdd really playing the flop that hard? It isnt like they could have a pair + FD here. I think two pair or a set are much more likely and they are scared of the flush and I would expect to see that a lot more often than a higher flush. If stacks were deeper or the pot were smaller Id consider making a smallish value bet, but here Im just going to shove.
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sauce123
Old 04-19-2007, 06:07 AM #14 (permalink)  
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http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-53729.htm

that being said:

hand 1: call shove

hand 2: closer but def call shove

hand 3: I just threw up in my mouth... Btw in hand 3 I literally spent 10 minutes reading and re reading the hand trying to find out where the board paired as I thought I was going blind or something.
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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sauce123
Old 04-19-2007, 06:09 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
oh and i don't threebet hand 2.
By far the only useful post in this thread....
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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c-luvin
Old 04-19-2007, 06:11 AM #16 (permalink)  
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http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-53729.htm

...call
...call
...shove
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c-luvin
Old 04-19-2007, 06:14 AM #17 (permalink)  
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ok im sorry i tried to be nice but i had to come back. when you checked behind on hand 3 a little bit of me died inside. come on dude. come on
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sauce123
Old 04-19-2007, 06:18 AM #18 (permalink)  
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I dont think I could fold hand 2 at 100nl, but its actually a very, very close and interesting spot the more I think about it.
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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JL
Old 04-19-2007, 06:25 AM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
oh and i don't threebet hand 2.
By far the only useful post in this thread....
Why no 3-bet?
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c-luvin
Old 04-19-2007, 07:12 AM #20 (permalink)  
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i really dont think hand 2 is close because his hand looks like AA/KK soooooo much. why wouldnt he c/r QQ JJ or AK after you 3bet.
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bode
Old 04-19-2007, 10:53 AM #21 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Hand 1: lol
Hand 2: lol
Hand 3: lol

call, call, and push.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Massimo
This post makes no sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Massimo
ok seriously though:

Hand 1: fold, it's obvious he has a set here

Hand 2: Fold. QQ, JJ, AK, I can't think of any hands he could possibly have.

Hand 3: Don't even bet the turn, hopefully he'll check it down.
wow, you two are some regular fucking ass clowns, aren't you.

thanks everyone else for responding. ill post some follow up questions when i get into work later.
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
 
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griffey24
Old 04-19-2007, 12:33 PM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JL
Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
oh and i don't threebet hand 2.
By far the only useful post in this thread....
Why no 3-bet?
Because he's 23/8, and his UTG range is pretty tight and he's likely way ahead of you PF or at worst a coin flip.

A lot of posts for hand 2 say that we should stack off since he likely has AA or KK etc. But if villain doesn't have AK, shouldn't he be worried that WE have AK? It doesn't seem like he's too worried.

I'm not saying I could fold here, but I think its very close.
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I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
 
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bode
Old 04-19-2007, 12:36 PM #23 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
oh and i don't threebet hand 2.
By far the only useful post in this thread....
Is it just because of the original raisers tight range that were not reraising, or does the cold caller have something to do w/ it?
Quote:
eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
 
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bode
Old 04-19-2007, 12:39 PM #24 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c-luvin
ok im sorry i tried to be nice but i had to come back. when you checked behind on hand 3 a little bit of me died inside. come on dude. come on
looking back on it after the fact i know i lost alot of value by checking behind the river in hand 3. While playing the hand though, something just seemed like he was on the same draw, and i couldnt see Jdxd doing that. I think it was the 2.5x raise on the flop. I take a similar line alot of times w/ the nut flush draw.
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bode
Old 04-19-2007, 12:41 PM #25 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
I dont think I could fold hand 2 at 100nl, but its actually a very, very close and interesting spot the more I think about it.
could someone run some ranges on pokerstove for hand 2? i dont have it on my computer at work, and really dont want to download it here.
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griffey24
Old 04-19-2007, 12:48 PM #26 (permalink)  
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 If we put villain's range as tight and only JJ+

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

33,660 games 0.005 secs 6,732,000 games/sec

Board: Jh Qh Tc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.559% 41.57% 00.99% 13991 334.50 { TdTs }
Hand 1: 57.441% 56.45% 00.99% 19000 334.50 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }

If we include AQ, which I think is probably the worst of his range here then we have:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

45,540 games 0.005 secs 9,108,000 games/sec

Board: Jh Qh Tc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 53.051% 51.95% 01.10% 23659 500.50 { TdTs }
Hand 1: 46.949% 45.85% 01.10% 20880 500.50 { JJ+, AQs+, AQo+ }
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 04-19-2007, 01:26 PM #27 (permalink)  
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 I just don't like reraising TT versus someone who's probably not only raising few hands that are folding, and calling pretty much only better hands.

Sorry if it came off harsh, i was just joking around. I'd say if there's a hole in your game is your not vbetting thin enough, not even close to thin enough, and that's something i'd really work on.

If you say "well why didn't u say that in the beginning instead of being an ass clown." I'd say this isn't lets totally be nice and serious forum, people like to have fun around here. I didn't mean my comments maliciously.
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bode
Old 04-19-2007, 01:50 PM #28 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I just don't like reraising TT versus someone who's probably not only raising few hands that are folding, and calling pretty much only better hands.

Sorry if it came off harsh, i was just joking around. I'd say if there's a hole in your game is your not vbetting thin enough, not even close to thin enough, and that's something i'd really work on.

If you say "well why didn't u say that in the beginning instead of being an ass clown." I'd say this isn't lets totally be nice and serious forum, people like to have fun around here. I didn't mean my comments maliciously.
its all good.

Value betting thinner is something i have really been focusing on recently, and its paying off (except for hand 3 above). Before i was betting too much (in relation to the pot) and folding out worse hands that would most likely call a smaller bet. Ive started v-betting closer to 1/2 pot or even less on the river and i think i am making more in the long run than i was by the much smaller % of villains that would call a 3/4-full pot bet on the river.
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
 
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Old 04-19-2007, 02:21 PM #29 (permalink)  
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 You just have to weigh the odds of opponent calling a lesser bet versus more value of betting harder. I think sauce told me however that most of the time it's best to be vbetting close to pot in big pots.
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c-luvin
Old 04-19-2007, 02:27 PM #30 (permalink)  
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its a great situation for you when you are betting pot for value and oponenet has to decide if your bluffing or not to call down rather than knowing your value betting 1/2 pot. this way you can get reads too like folds to river PSB, or doesnt, and you get more monies
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Old 04-19-2007, 02:43 PM #31 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c-luvin
its a great situation for you when you are betting pot for value and oponenet has to decide if your bluffing or not to call down rather than knowing your value betting 1/2 pot. this way you can get reads too like folds to river PSB, or doesnt, and you get more monies
I'd say this if he had a lagg image, i dont think that is the case. And it's very situational so its hard to generalize.
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bode
Old 04-19-2007, 06:59 PM #32 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffey24
If we put villain's range as tight and only JJ+

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

33,660 games 0.005 secs 6,732,000 games/sec

Board: Jh Qh Tc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.559% 41.57% 00.99% 13991 334.50 { TdTs }
Hand 1: 57.441% 56.45% 00.99% 19000 334.50 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }

If we include AQ, which I think is probably the worst of his range here then we have:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

45,540 games 0.005 secs 9,108,000 games/sec

Board: Jh Qh Tc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 53.051% 51.95% 01.10% 23659 500.50 { TdTs }
Hand 1: 46.949% 45.85% 01.10% 20880 500.50 { JJ+, AQs+, AQo+ }
i think the first range here is the most accurate because i dont see him calling a 3-bet OOP w/ AQ.

After looking at the first range, and only being ~42% to win, i think a fold looks good here. Is the general consensus to still just stick my stack in because you should "never fold a set in a 3-bet pot"?
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
 
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bode
Old 04-19-2007, 07:02 PM #33 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by c-luvin
its a great situation for you when you are betting pot for value and oponenet has to decide if your bluffing or not to call down rather than knowing your value betting 1/2 pot. this way you can get reads too like folds to river PSB, or doesnt, and you get more monies
I'd say this if he had a lagg image, i dont think that is the case. And it's very situational so its hard to generalize.
i definitly dont have a loose enough image to do this consistently and get called enough. I have a loosER image than most of the TAGG's at UB $100nl, but not enough that they dont give me respect. I have been working on my 3 barrells more though
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 04-19-2007, 07:50 PM #34 (permalink)  
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 O rly? then i'd be betting pot a lot more. Way to open up your game.
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silu73
Old 04-19-2007, 09:03 PM #35 (permalink)  
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Hand 1:
Against a guy like this I would push it all day and hope he doesn't have KTo

Hand 2:
Sometimes I 3-bet sometimes I don't with TT. If the UTG raiser is reasonably tight I wouldn't though. I think you would have gotten more information by calling pre and raising the flop if UTG c/bets.

Hand 3:
What am I missing? You have the 2nd nuts and you are not betting the river in position?
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Old 04-19-2007, 09:06 PM #36 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I'd say if there's a hole in your game is your not vbetting thin enough, not even close to thin enough, and that's something i'd really work on.
That was a big leak in my game as well. I was blowing people out of pots instead of building it. How often did I call thin value bets with mid pair?
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Old 04-20-2007, 12:51 AM #37 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
hand 3: I just threw up in my mouth... Btw in hand 3 I literally spent 10 minutes reading and re reading the hand trying to find out where the board paired as I thought I was going blind or something.
hahahah you're my hero

1: easy call
2:tougher call but call
3:vbet wtf
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Old 04-20-2007, 01:09 AM #38 (permalink)  
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how does sauce get more respect for throwing up in his mouth than a peice of me dying. god damn it i need to play some 5/10
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bode
Old 04-20-2007, 10:38 AM #39 (permalink)  
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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 how about some results

hand 1: i called an he flipped JdTd

hand 2: of course i called and he had AhKh so my one out to quads was tainted I still think i could, and should, have layed this hand down.

hand 3: This hand was actually just a simple case of me 5-6 tabling and misclicking instead of betting. I just wanted to see what everyone thought of this. When i was reviewing my session his 2.5x reraise on the flop looks like a line i take sometimes w/ the nut flush draw, so i did think he had that sometimes, but obviously not enough to check this behind. He actually showed down K7o for a flopped 2 pair.
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
 
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